Aishwarya Rai – A victim of Brahmin Conspiracy

Aishwarya Rai is of the Bunt / Shetty caste of Karnataka and she belongs to the caste of V.T. Rajashekar the editor of Dalit Voice who is the greatest intellectual of India after Babasaheb. Dalit Voice is a magazine that inspired us to start Dalit Nation. The editor has worked with the great V.T. Rajashekar earlier and we have been inspired by him. Apart from Babasaheb and Kancha Ilaiah, VTR is our greatest inspiration. We have had several talks with VTR when he visited Oxford University in England. We have also had lengthy and stimulating discussions with VTR at his residence at palace lower orchards in Bangalore.

 Bunts are a backward caste and VTR has written about it. Bunts are  shudras. The oppressed people who have come from the feet of God. Aishwaraya proved to the world that she is the smartest and beautiful when she won the Miss World title. Brahmins the most cruel race in the world could never digest it. When Aishwarya Rai joined movies the brahmin and Bania toilet papers like Times of India, Hindu and Indian Express were seething with jealousy. They made claims that she does not know any acting. They always sided with their jatwallah actress like the maharistrian brahmins Madhuri Dixit and Sonali Bendre.

The wily upper caste people in Bollywood tried to set up Aishwarya Rai with the upper caste wallahs. But our Shudra sister Aishwarya never relented. It was during this time when she was harassed by these papans that Salman Khan rescued her. Salman Khan being a muslim wanted to get married to Aishwarya Rai and save her from the oppressive Hindu caste system. A system which has crushed and oppressed our men and especially women. But the upper caste wallahs started spreading all kinds of rumors about Salman Khan. They called him a cocaine addict. These brahmins can go to any length. They will tell what suits their need. Finally they implicated Salman Khan in a fake accident case. They split these two people so that Aishwarya can stay in the evil Hindu caste system. This is what all these upper caste people have been doing to Dalits so that they can never escape from their tyranny.

After this incident they did not leave Aishwarya alone. They hatched a conspiracy in UP and got the manuwadi Amar Singh to get Aishwarya married to Abhishek Bachan, a half upper caste sikh and brahmin. They even made Aishwarya marry a banana plant before this marriage. How these evil people oppress us there is no end. Aishwarya now no longer identifies with her Dalit brethren. She has been swallowed up by this upper caste conspiracy.

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908 Comments »

  1. ruhi said

    Never read a more ridiculous post in my life.

    • HIB said

      This article – What kinda crap is this?
      By such articles you are doing no good to dalitnation. You already lost my credibility.

      • Ranjan Shetty said

        First of all, I want to clear this thing that Bunts are not shudras or dalits. The word bunt means soldier in Tulu language( local language used in dakshina kannada district( mangalore, udupi etc.). Bunt community is considered in open category & according to the above written crap, if bunts are shudras, then we would have got every facilities that government offers like reservation quotas in jobs,education etc. If you have no idea or information about what you are writing then dont write anything according to your imagination. try to get full information, then write.Bunts are basically farmers & considered as important community after brahmins. Many rulers from bunt community ruled coastal part of karnataka in the past. So stop writing anything bullshit

      • prasad said

        Mr Ranjan shetty,

        I agree to your points partially. But as per hinduism , brahamin, kshatriya and vaisya have upanayana( thread ceremony ) But sudras doesn’t have that. Bunts doesn’t have thread ceremony.

        So u decide.

        Most of the Bunt surname is got from Jains. Please have a note of it.

    • P S Subramanian said

      I agree. The attack on Brahmins is unwarranted. It reflects moronic thinking and can only help towards dividing the nation. The Dalit Voice will only split India. We need to work towards uniting the nation instead of splitting it. Work towards a society in which there will be no lower castes and no upper castes. We need to respect the way people live instead of looking at where they were born.

      This longish write-up desperately firing from the shoulders of Aishwariya Rai smacks of a juvenile delinquent and a maverick.

      • Brahminism rocks said

        Ah! What an injustice to Aishwarya Rai? Maybe I can offer to date her and marry her to end this injustice. I can take this supreme sacrifice fr for the welfare of my people :P. And in the future if you have such beautiful chicks always, always let me know. Don’t let those half-Brahmins get the best meat.

      • Prateek Joshi said

        This is an excellent article and it moved me to tears. As a Brahmin and on behalf of the Brahmin community I want to apologize to Aishwarya Rai for all the horrible abuse she has gone through. All I can say is I can make up for it by giving her a full body relaxing massage. This is all I can offer and once again my apologies to the Dalits.

        Prateek Joshi
        Brahmin Ayurvedic Doctor and Massage Therapist.

      • Raghav said

        This is BULL SHIT.. Dont try to break indian peace with this crap..

      • B. Viswanatah Murthy, M Com., LL.B. said

        Attn: Mr Prasad & Mr Ranjan Shetty. It is not one’s right to wear the holy thread. In Andhra the handloom community (Padmashali) is blessed with the right to celebrate the function to wear Jandhyam (holy thread). Today Devangas, viswakarmas are also eligible to wear it on the ocxcasion of Upanayanam.

    • bunt_brahmin said

      hey fuck off,,,u writing all shits. bunts are very very improved and high class people in the hierarchy. i will sue you if you don’t remove this article

      • kavya said

        Brahmins don’t know what are other communities as they think they are only upper caste in india. Todays’ brahmin is eating nonveg and gettting married wherever money is der and he is very calculating. They have knowledge but no body and are always stingy….. look at the bunts an dother communities in mangalore how rich they look by eating nonveg and culturally……………….

      • Mahar but Brahmin idiots made us Dalit said

        Wow what a language? Truth is always bitter mate. What you want just do it? Truth wins you dickhead. And what hierachy you are talking about…if I post videos of some Brahmin families…will you pull them down in hierarchy list? Obviously not. so then just shut the fuck up. What Mr. Shetty is takling about then Rea about Mahars, Shiv dharma, Maratha Seva Sangh and then post your comments..

      • dips said

        such backward caste peoples only spoiling India. They even shy to keep their original name and adopting the names of open caste people to show up. But, by keeping false name they cannot change origin because they are habitual of getting facillities and spoiling India.

      • sidharth said

        dont be blind to the facts.Bunts enjoy scheduled caste status in Maharastra but OBC in Karnataka but never upper caste.Be bold enough to accept this fact.

    • virtualfir said

      I think this comment has been posted by some cunning brahmin or under his influence. These brahmins are really cunning

      • v said

        i accept u

      • AishwaryaRaiLover said

        Once again, i am a brahmin. We are PEOPLE you know!! We have brains!! Would you discriminate a whole race/country for something ONE person did?! Would you say all germans are horrible cos of Hitler? You wouldnt, So dont give Brahmins a bad name! If whoever write this was a Brahmin, then THAT SPECIFIC Person is an Idiot! Are you guys just stupid?!

    • Sharma k said

      what ever do we are no 1

    • shelley said

      But a great revolutionary mind? Where were you when Guru Ravidas (Chamar community), Bhagat kabir (weaver), Bhagat Sain (barber) all dalits were baptized (guru dharan) by Great Brahmin saint Ramananda. So Ramanand was cruel brahmin in your eyes who turned these normal dalits to a evershining stars in the Great Indian Philosophical Sky by becoming their Greeeeeeeeeeat Guru.
      Similarly The the Great Bhagat Namdev (tailor, a dalit) Was turned Great after becoming the disciple of a cruel Brahmin Visoba Khechara.
      And the list goes on and the cruelty of brahmins go on………………..

      • not-bound-by-caste said

        Stop spreading such negativity around.
        Save your dignity, and that of your so-called caste’s, by not writing again! (Unless you have better things to write about!)

    • (Facts regarding ‘Bunts’)….Two Shettys, Pimpri-Chinchwad Municipal Corporation chairman Jagdish and brother Ulhas, are in trouble for allegedly submitting false caste certificate for contesting the February civic elections from wards reserved for Scheduled Caste candidates. Ulhas is also facing charges of providing fake caste certificates.

      The issue came to fore through an RTI application moved by Shiv Sena leader Sarang Kamtekar before the Caste Verification Committee. Kamtekar procured a copy of the Vigilance Squad report submitted to the Committee.

      “The squad had gone to Shettys’ native place to verify caste certificates and school leaving certificates submitted by the brothers. The squad report says the Shettys belong to the upper caste and not Scheduled Caste,” said Kamtekar.

      The Shettys claimed in their caste certificates that they belong to “Hindu Bunt” community. “The Shettys sought to project a wrong caste status. They belong to Hindu Bunts community, which is an upper caste in Karnataka.

      The Bunt community in Maharashtra is primarily found in Solapur and belongs to Scheduled Caste. The Shettys misused it to project themselves as Scheduled Caste,” said Kamtekar.

      When contacted, Ulhas claimed they belong to the Scheduled Caste community. “In Karnataka Bunt community comes under OBC, but in Maharashtra they have been given Scheduled Caste status by the Maharashtra Government,” said Ulhas, adding they have been living in Maharashtra for 50 years and have little connection with Karnataka.

      “The Shiv Sena is trying to avenge the defeat of their candidates by us. The Sena double standards are clearly visible. In PMC areas, one of its candidates was a Shetty and contested from a ward reserved for Scheduled Caste. He lost, or else the Sena would have found it difficult to take it out against us,” he said.

      … contd.
      (News in ‘Indian Express’, dated 7th June 2012)

  2. dalitnation said

    Ruhi Said – “Never read a more ridiculous post in my life.”

    - Another brahminical upper caste mind who tries to ridcule us the Dalits.

    • mgb said

      u people know only hating . like any indian idiot politician.

    • geyamala said

      this article is a clear manifestation of people who are trying to divide people on the basis of caste and history falsified to suit their needs.
      instead of posting this type of nonsense and propagating hatred against brahmins who are no more ruling class.
      most of the land, power, industries are owned not by brahmins.
      it is not brahmins who are pursuing two glass system in villages.
      it is not brahmins who demolished babri maszid and perpetrated killing of innocent muslims in gujarat.
      are multi billionaires like aishwarya rai who takes rs 6 crores to act in a movie belong to oppressed class?
      it is not caste but the class that is to be taken into consideration.
      check the data of people who commit atrocities and physical attacks on daliths and what is their caste.

    • geyamala said

      bunts are not back ward caste people. they are rich and forward caste people.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunt_(community)

      • kavya said

        Bunts are not backward nor are the other communities in mangalore. If shilps shetty aishwarya and others int he their cast ehave been in the film industry why do they use their names and make it big show telling thta they are forward dat doens’t mean dressing up can make u forward. well hats tot hem thye hae lot of unity but they can’t dominate the other religions

  3. Radhey Shyam said

    I am in complete agreement with the scholar who wrote this. I did not know that Aishwarya was also one among us. Yes I am a dalit and we belong to the Dhobi caste from UP. My blood is boiling now that Aishwarya is married to the Half Khatri / Kayastha – Half brahmin Abhishek. We should atleast make sure that your other sisters do not end up with the same fate and remain within our biradari.
    Also please note I am a bachelor and if you have any phone number or email IDs of your other sisters who are similar to Aishwarya rai please let me know. I can marry her and prevent the evil upper caste people from enjoying our women. Jai Bhim

    • Ranjan Shetty said

      First of all, I want to clear this thing that Bunts are not shudras or dalits. The word bunt means soldier in Tulu language( local language used in dakshina kannada district( mangalore, udupi etc.). Bunt community is considered in open category & according to the above written crap, if bunts are shudras, then we would have got every facilities that government offers like reservation quotas in jobs,education etc. If you have no idea or information about what you are writing then dont write anything according to your imagination. try to get full information, then write.Bunts are basically farmers & considered as important community after brahmins. Many rulers from bunt community ruled coastal part of karnataka in the past. So stop writing anything bullshit

      • bhavya said

        Hi

        Bunts/nairs both are same they are considered shudras by Brahmins.
        I am not a bunt.i am balija but we too use shetty surname ourside.
        so I started researching on bunts.i read this Brahmin article which speak about bunt/nair practices .read it about your community written by Brahmins.it is a big shock to me after reading it.
        google :nairs and bunts are shudras
        kerala mental asylum by swami Vivekananda.

      • real human said

        peace people…dont fight for these rubbish things……only the blood group differs not race or caste or religion….dont waste time… we are humans we are born to keep the world safe and protect the living things…
        for example.. just think u were undergoing a byepass surgery.. about 10 to 20 bottles of blood will be given to u… can u identify the blood from each bottle belong to which caste??….. This will happen in your life atleast once….leave this nonsense..happy humanity…

    • Shraavan Hegde said

      1st of all..i think you are a complete moron!
      And 2nd bunts were the ruling land-owning community of tulunaad(coastal karnataka). I am a bunt and we dont wear the holy thread. Maybe because our customs are different. but that dosnt change the fact that we were ruling higher class

  4. Pandey the Panda said

    What a big and mighty heart you have Radhey. I am moved by your compassion for the cute Dalit girls. Although I am not a Dalit, I am giving you some references of other Bunt Girls in Bollywood like Shilpa Shetty and Shamitha Shetty. You can try your luck Radhey in saving them from upper caste hindus. Shilpa is a very rich girl after she won the reality show in UK. Look how they abused her racially. Poor rich girl. Radhey go for her man.

    • AishwaryaRaiLover said

      You know what i just realized?? This is not a website for Balits!! Its an Anti-brahmin website!! What do you guys have against us?! When you walk on the streets does anyone ask you “What caste are you?” No?? Then IT DOESNT MATTER DOES IT?! Read all the featured articles on the right. ALL of them are against brahmins and are not supporting Balits in any way. Its not us who want to divide up the nation! Its people like whoever made this website who says all brahmins are evil!! They are the people who want to divide the nation into castes. It was Aishwarya Rai’s choice that she married Abhishek Bachan. As ive said before, dont judge a whole caste just by one person!!

  5. Onecleanbloke said

    I was searching for Bunt and found this site. The author of the article is an idiot. Bunts are one of the richest people. This fellow is just making up theories from thin air. Bunts own all the major jewellery stores and hotels in Mumbai. Check out before writing this garbage.

  6. dalitnation said

    Onecleanoceanbloke –
    I dont know whether you are a Bunt or not. Next time when you post please specify your caste. Don’t be a coward. Caste is not about being rich or poor. Just because Bunts own hotels and jewelery shops they don’t become upper caste. A brahmin who cannot afford one square meal a day can treat Bunt’s like filth. Don’t try to act caste blind and teach us. We have Babasaheb to guide us. He has liberated us. We can’t tolerate your nonsense anymore. Regarding Bunts our mentor the great dalit intellectual VT rajashekar is a Bunt and he is the most respected living scholar on Dalits today. By claiming that Bunts are upper caste don’t try to split the Dalits. We know all your gameplans.

    • Ranjan Shetty said

      what do you know about bunt community? I’m sure that you are not from bunt community & dont knw anything about it, about its history or people from this community. Ask any person from bunt community, get the information& then write. Iam also a bunt & Iam shocked to hear from you, half knwoledge people, that we bunts are dalits. Is this why we are in open category? I know that the person from our community with a goodwill served the lower community. It doesnt mean that he is a dalit. Go to mangalore or Udupi & see what bunts are & see whether they are upper or lower class people.

      • Sam George said

        The author is mistaken when he says that bunts are Dalits but you are also mistaken in thinking that bunts are born superior to Dalits or anyone else. brahmins and bunts are self proclaimed upper class. Todays Dalits don’t give a damn about anyone who claims to be superior to them.

      • sidharth said

        do you or your forefathers do the thread ceremony?check it.

  7. ruhi said

    Dalitnation,

    I’m not an upper caste brahmin FYI. I don’t believe in this caste nonsense like you. The only thing that you seem to be focusing in this blog is the caste system, which should actually be the last thing you should be focusing upon! Shows how educated you are or how much you really understand.

    I don’t know from where you got all this crap information. It would be great if you could provide a link. Looks like it is a figment of your imagination.

    I would advice you not to draw conclusions over the caste of the people who comment on your blog without knowing anything.

    • robert said

      what maks you tell u don believe god differentiated but never discriminated ppl . There are so many goods in brahmanical culture what makes u defy that .These fellows just for the sake of making a point that they too exist talk some non sense

  8. dalitnation said

    To Ruhi

    We dont have much to say to people who have been brainwashed by the Brahminical forces. How can you be so heartless to the Sudras the people who have been oppressed for 5000 years. Shame on you.

    • devparna said

      To Everyone,

      THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST ENTERTAINING POST….

      Thats all… and i am also impressed by the no of replies it has got… quite obvious for the kind of post it is…. Now can I please Laugh… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    • bhaskar said

      you are biased. let me ask you . dravidians are also outsiders. and there is no proof that the civillization existed for 5000 years. often rich dalits abuse poor dalits also.muslims also committed atrocities on dalits(bangladesh). you are mum. your senses comes to live,only when you can have the mind to speak .

  9. Saint said

    The author’s claim is not just about a caste or sect, it transpires beyond the social classification.

    It is about the mutlilation of humanity and human dignity in the name of caste system, which is created by the Brahminical mafia. I am not in anyway saying all Brahmins are mafia, my closest friends and even family members are Brahmins, I am not. I am neither a Brahmin nor an Hindu, I lived, live and will die as a Buddhist, by following the most contemplative thoughts of Dr.Ambedkar and Lord Buddha.

    I had several of my friends and colleagues from all the procrastinating caste terminology, never once anyone dare to argue, insult or name call me or the dalit caste when I am present, as they know I never believed in it nor I will let anyone walk away with abusive expressions as some commentors wrote here.
    Along those lines, what this author says is “whoever he or she is”, a reality about “how woman are treated in India, irrestpective of whether she is a brahmin or any… that woman are treated just like dalits or even worst than dalits.

    He has to narrate the background of Rai or other womans as bunts or whatever, yes this group of Indians are probably the richest or even wealthiest in various aspects, but when it come to the Brahminical Indians, these richie riches too will be treated like a third rated humans.

    So he argues that do not let the woman beeing sabotaged by brahmins and do not let their rights and dignity is taken away by those casteistic people.

    What is wrong in writing and telling the world as the author expressed, he/she is bit angered by the modern day slavery and casteism, he/she has the right to be say. How come half of the commentors here do not seems to use their thoughts without the chaturvarna inclination. You are diminishing you are ability to gain knowledge of the reality, besides beeing obnoxiosly rude to the author, if you open up your mind generously, you might learn something from this author here, if you do not take it, just leave him/her alone, do not abuse. Which only qualifies you to be part of the savage Brahminical clowns.

    • Vasudev akundi said

      according to your website all the atrocities across the world are commited only by brahmins, right from the 1st world war, to the breaking of the bamiyan buddha statues by the taliban. yet brahmins were not banned by any international body; does it mean that the brahmins are super intelligent and have the brains to get away with anything they do…or does it mean that dalits have their brains in their arses ? even after 60 years of extreme marginalization and social outcasting of the brahmin community you inferior dalits still dread the intelligence of our community. I will die a proud brahmin….inspite of our very small numbers…we still command the power to fool you dalits.

  10. Ekalavyan said

    What Dalitnation has said is a truth. Upper caste criminals cannot understand this. Brahmins converted India into an intellectual desert. They believe only what they wanted toBelieve!!!!!

  11. Mr. Shetty said

    I am a Bunt and we are in no way related to the activities of Mr. V.T.Rajashekar. V.T. Rajashekar is also from our Shetty/Bunt community and is a big Hypocrite who has made bashing brahmins and jews as his profession. This man gets funds from all the anti national forces from the Gulf, Europe and america to support all the seccessionist movements in India like Khalisthan, Terrorism in North east, Tamil terrorism, Naxals, Kashmir terrorists. In the name of Dalits he is supporting terrorism in India. He is no intellectual. All he knows is a few cliches which he has been repeating over and over again since many decades. His main influence is the ‘Nation of Islam’ and like the nation of islam he has created a dalit centric history. His main aim is the dis integration and weakening of India. His main target is Hinduism in general and he does this by targetting upper caste people.
    It is a well known fact that Bunts are very religious hindus. Bunts are also caretakers of many temples and they have looked after and cared for many poor brahmins. so what this person is talking is all nonsense.

    The Author of this ridiculous article should understand that – Aishwarya Rai is neither oppressed nor a victim. She belongs to the elite strata of possibly the whole world. Salman Khan was an abusive person who has been booked under the wildlife act for killing engendered blackbucks as well as he has been involved in a accident which is a culpable homicide not accounting to murder. He is currently looking like he is being a reformed person. Even aishwaraya rai and salman khan will not agree with your article which is rubbish.

    I am pretty sure you or your mentor Rajashekar have not helped Dalits in any way except in helping some self serving dalit politicians to come to power. I am very sorry for the Dalits if this is the kind of intellectual leadership they have. Instead of dividing people into communities we should all work together to uplift the underpreviliged of our soceity irrespective of whatever caste they belong to. The dalits have so many economic and social issues and living in appaling conditions.

    • bhaskar said

      I respect people like you sir.This is not the question of castes,but class. I do not hate dalits and as a brahmin do not like biased attitude. I am sorry,if somebody has written anything bad about your community. All castes(as they do exists must be treated with dignities and respect).These people are totally ignorant of other caste cultures but even orthodox upper caste do respect other castes. I believe in caste equality. I do not hate beggars, Ph. Because they are genuinely deprived. They may be a brahmin, muslim, obc, anything. Have sympathy for the poorest of the poor and god would be kind. remember neighbours helps neighbours(any caste/religions). I am currently under financial distress. I ama brahmin but some Sc ‘s also helped me.God bless yoy ,sir. Have a good day.

  12. Thunderdownunder said

    I am completely in agreement with the author. I also think Marlyn Monroe was a dalit and John F Kennedy a Brahmin. We all know how marlyn was exploited. she finally commited suicide. Shame on the brahmins and jews for killing marlyn monroe.

  13. HumanRightsWatch said

    Hey guys. I have gone through this entire site and also Dalit voice. I have now understood all the rules on how the world works:

    Anything Bad Anywhere in the World is created by Brahmins.
    Dalits are the lowest caste being exploited by Brahmins.
    Islam, Christianity and Buddhism are against Brahmins
    Hinduism is the worst religion
    All the ills of the world are caused by Hinduism all the other religions are great.

    Carry on with the hate speech. You might get some charity from your slave masters.

    • AishwaryaRaiLover said

      HAHAHA!! Thank you!! I love people like you who can see through the bullshit. I am a brahmin and i believ in caste equality, yet i dont want to get rid of the caste system because its an ancient hindu act. People never see my point of view. They either think im an ‘uppercaste bitch’ who takes pity of everyone, or im an ‘uppercaste bitch’ who is arrogant and wants the caste system to continue because i am off an uppercaste. Your post is the first one which i fully agree with!! Haha. I also like the way you listed ‘facts’! :P

  14. King Kong said

    hiya. I am not much of a fan of Aishwarya Rai. I feel she is beautiful with little acting talent. She is a barbie doll with few predictable expressions. Does these views qualify as brahminical barbarianism.

  15. Bonzo said

    I could not help myself laughing after reading this post. I was ROFL and LMAO. This is the best joke I heard today. Carry on with this work Dalitnation. I hope you will write more funny things like this in the future.

  16. Brigadier said

    The author is so knowledgeble I want to tell the author he has missed out on the conspiracy in the Miss India itself. Ash was second in miss india to Sushmitha sen. Now this was a great conspiracy. Not sure whether sushmitha sen is a brahmin. But ash should have gon to miss universe. Well brahmins will never allow the dalit aishwarya to be called miss universe… They want dalits only to go to miss world.

    • . said

      bunts are Kshatriyas not shudras. don’t write nonsense if you don’t know anything.

  17. happyhindu said

    hahaha!!!! Never read a funnier conversation than this entire post…..

  18. dalitnation said

    The Brahminical forces as usual are responding to this article and abusing us Dalits. They have thrived in abusing us from centuries and of course they have mastered it. How long will you all continue doing this. Just wait and you will see all your upper caste wallahs will be biting dust soon.

    Many of you have abused the great V.T.Rajashekar. But you don’t realize that our mentor and inspiration VTR knows all your gameplans. He has been fighting with you singlehandedly for the last 25 years but now he is no longer alone. He has millions of Dalits supporting him and we at Dalitnation know this fact. This fact the Brahmins don’t see because they see only what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. They are like the three chinese monkeys.

    We at dalitnation again pledge our support to the Dalit cause. The fake bunts who have responded to this post are all brahmins. Again I will reiterate Bunts are Sudras and exploited by Brahmins. This the upper castewallahs dont want to see. They are blind and want to make the whole world blind. But this deception is going to end soon. Wait till the Dalits come to power in Delhi. You can abuse as as much as you like we dont care.

    • amit said

      are u mentaly ill or something..

  19. chinesemonkeys said

    Nope, we love you — for making us laugh so much :-)

  20. Alkhali said

    Our dalit women need strong dalit bodies to produce strong dalit children. Dalit men wake up. Dont allow the pot bellied brahmins and banias to capture the dalit women.

  21. Venugopal said

    These people who have written this has no brians. what a stupid thing to call aishwarya as dalit. Just because some idotic dalit scholar VT rajshekar is bunt caste. bunt caste is a rich caste and not at all dalit. dont try to divert from the real issues of dalits which is discrimination and poverty. for all the people whoi comment here just writing these stupid articles and laughing at the cost of dalits is bad.

    • kavya said

      The community of Bunts (anglicized from Buntas), also referred to as Nadavas, form an important and integral part of the socio economic culture of Tulu nadu, in coastal Karnataka. They share Tulu nadu with other prominent ethnic groups like the Mogaveeras,Billavas, Brahmins, Konkanis, Catholics and Jains. As a community, Bunts are next in number only to the Billavas of Tulu nadu.

  22. Ajatashatru said

    This is an excellent article. This showcases many things:
    1. Not all castes who call themselves dalit are poor and discriminated
    2. Not all people who claim to represent dalits are dalits
    3. Caste and Class are different.
    4. A so called backward caste can be a rich class.
    5. A forward caste person can be from the poor class.
    6. Thousands of years of oppression is a joke because soceity is fluid
    7. If caste is occupation then all film stars are one caste – the artist caste.

    Let the people think on these things and you will get all the answers for social problems. This article is superb and gives a lot of food for thought. Carry on with the good work Dalit Nation.

  23. Avinash said

    Hi ppl….first of all I am a brahmin….so dalit nation can shred my views to pieces….

    But dalitnation…wasnt this the reason why u hate brahmins? because they dont allow you to express your views…because we(anyone who does not subscribe to this blog’s views) are only trying to belittle dalits everywhere…well let me just prove my credentials…I work for an NGO called Bharat Uday Mission…I dont know(nor care) about what castes my fellow workers are from…neither do I worry about who I am helping…what are your credentials to belittle me?…who have you helped…have you done anything without worrying about which caste the person is from? I thought we were all Indians…who were trying to forgive and forget the past…dont forget that ppl in Tamil Nadu in the name of rationalism have garlanded lord Ganesh’s idol with slippers claiming they were destroying brahminism…but is an eye for an eye your philosophy? I never heard buddhism express that as their ideal….I am not justifying what my or your forefathers have done….I nor you can change that…but we can change whats happening around us cant we? This post has issues with caste system…will any sunni marry a shite? will any Roman Catholic marry a protestant? This ‘evil’ exists everywhere…but in different forms…but it is an evil nonetheless…if you want to remove castism then remove it first from your own head that you are a dalit…and then remove it from your friends that they belong to any caste at all….but I fear the biggest stumbling block would be who starts first…I have…with myself…I am a brahmin…I do what my religion tells me….but I dont discriminate…if everyone can do that we can live in peace…I hope dalitnation will forgive me if I said anything wrong…but if I did…try adding some rational explanation like Saint…

  24. happyhindu said

    Very well said Ajatashatru.

    We are castes, not a nation. We become a nation only if we remove castes.

    If indeed there was any oppression how come so many yadavs from the jat-land and shudras down south became rulers / feudal lords / kings.

    The whole idea about caste is a political ploy by politicians to continue the ‘divide and rule’ legacy left by their erstwhile white masters. Its a complete sham.

    • Ramesh said

      It was not a political ploy. It was a functional system once. It worked because people beleived in each other and each group kept their commitment, promise. A kshatriya was true to his name. He protected the country and his subjects, maintained law, order, social justice, happiness of the people and never cheated the country by stealing its assets( sand, iron ore, coal mining mafia). He went to the streets in person, masking himself, to check what is happening in the streets. Are his people really happy.

      A brahmin helped the society in religious works, aiding the king and administration and was living purely on the salary and donations of the king.

      A vysya did business and was true to his trade.

      A sudra had an important job in the society. and did his assigned role.

      People were then,content with what they had and they trusted that their king will take care of them and HE DID.

      So if everyone do their job with integrity and selflessness, happiness will reach everyone’s life.

      Remember happiness is the actual measure of life and not material richness or wealth. So people need to revisit their life perspectives and move on with life.

      If the king can ensure his grass root person gets adequate shelter, food, civic and education amenities, people are happy. People have to work for success. Success cannot be spoonfed like in reservation. People should be given tools and access to tools for them to work with. People should be encouraged to work and avenues for growth. Rewards cannot be given to them in a platter, like in reservation.

      So blame the king and administration for all the evils of the day.

    • Akaula Kaula said

      One can never get rid of VaNa, period. Take USOfA; (perhaps the place where from this Dalit Nation is orchestrated by white Cristian Missionary, Using Dalits as Trojan Horse), here there is intellectual class called Academics in Universities and think tanks, Then there are Military and Police and other forces, Then there are MNC’s, Industrialists generators of economy & then there are the rest who provide services like postal service, cleaning services, etc etc. Take any society ther ewill be these people. In general I have not seen Trek between teh Service Joe and teh Rockfellers, Rothschilds, Carnegis etc. The only thing that is different i sthat in India these professions may have gotten fossilized to some extent because of what ever reason. The texts like Bhagvad Geeta clearly states that VarNa is a natural order, you can ignore it but you can not get rid of it. You will have names for each of these professions, may be not Indian names. I have not seen Rothschilds or Rockafellers marrying a Janitor or a Street cleaner even if white.
      So fall prey for teh white mans wile, and we will get colonized.

  25. [...] Authentic Voice of the Dalits. The author takes pleasure in analyzing every main stream event (even the crowning of Aishwarya Rai as Miss World) from a caste-system-point-of-vew. He abuses anyone who doesn’t agree with his narrow view [...]

  26. come on film industry is filled with people without morals, or religion…
    some sleep with anything that moves creeps or crawls.. some change the religion so that they can marry multiple number of times
    how can such people claim to be of the high caste

  27. dalitnation said

    All the brahminical forces are afraid of the awakening of dalits. Hence you find all these posts ridiculing the dalits. There are some of the Brahmin Hindu Nazis who claim that they work in these or that NGOs and ask us what we do to alleviate the suffering of Dalits. We at Dalit Nation are furthering the cause of empowerment of Dalits. A cause which hits at the very root of the Brahminical social order. Just working in some silly so called social welfare organisation wouldn’t wash the blood on your hands. We have seen many such organisations and welfare organisations. We know of many lions clubs, donkey’s and monkeys clubs. At dalit nation we are working towards a revolution to topple the BSO and we will stop at nothing less. Let the oppresors have their time now. The future belongs to us – the shudra and ati shudras of india.

  28. Dear Dalitnation,

    Lions Club is a Recreational spot for people who have cash in their pockets and do not know what to do with free time. Having said that the Lions Blood bank is the largest of its kind in the country and helps many thousands of innocent dying civilians at free cost by gathering blood donors and donating blood to the needy when required.

    Its a shame you cannot distinguish the difference between Lions Club and a Genuine NGO like Bharath Uday Mission. If you know what Bharath Uday Mission is then it is for starters an educational institution that gives free education to orphans and special schools in and across the city of chennai. I used to work myself for this NGO sometime ago.

    Do you know as per the constitution of India it is Unconstitutional or to put it blatantly its criminal offense to address someone by the derogatory term “shudra” or “parayan” or “backward caste”.

    You would be in Jail if someone here files a complaint in a police station. You could be in prison for weeks or months together for racial discrimination. Please stop calling anyone including yourself by that derogatory term “shud***”. Its offensive and its a crime.

  29. non-chinesemonkeys said

    Dalitnation,

    Stop calling yourself the representative of all shudras. There are many shudras ashamed of you, including myself.

    What blood does a brahmin have on his hands???

    In future, you will be remembered for having the dirt of casteism on your hands.

    Please answer me, if indeed there was any oppression, how did shudras become feudal lords / rulers – yadavs / jats in the north, nayaks in the south, even the mauryas (chandragupta, ashoka, etc) were not kshatriyas. If you dalits / shudras were put into a so-called brahminical social order, how did this happen?

  30. dalitnation said

    Most of the upper caste folks don’t know any history. They believe what they want to believe. Of course there were many shudra kings and rulers. Some like Chandragupta were used as puppets by the Brahmin machievelli chanakya. It was these wily brahmins who finally destroyed all the heritage of shudras and ati shudras. Read Ambedkar on how many of the Shudras rebelled against the BSO and how the brahmins reacted to it and finally destroyed shudra culture.

    Now we are being educated on the constitution of India and also threatned that we will be jailed for using the term ‘Shudra’, a term used by brahminical oppressors against us. It is very strange the brahmins used to call us shudras and now when we even mention the name given by our oppressors it becomes a crime. It was we who told you the word Shudra is taboo and we always call ourselves as Dalits. It is your brahminical scriptures which call us Shudras, Chandalas and Mlecchas. Think about it, just to erase all history you want us to use the nomenclature that you give to us. The criminal Gandhi used to call us the’Harijans’, children of god. As if all the others are children of devils. Gandhi was an intellectual pygmy and it is a shame we call him the father of nation. Read the real father of our nation Babsaheb and you will undestand how shudras were created by brahmins. We never call ourselves Shudras as it is derogatory. It is your silly cock and bull rig vedic purusha suktha which called us and condemned as Shudras. First ban this Rig veda and then talk about constitution and rights. This horrible peice of crap called Purusha Suktha claims that Shudras come from the feet of their god. This is repeated every day in your temples by the preists. First go and ban all these and then talk to us. Don’t give us lectures on filing complaints in police stations. First go and examine your scriptures and temples and what these idiotic brahmin preists recite and parrot day in and day out. Then you will know who can be imprisoned.

    It is because of this constitution drafted by the greatest intellectual and the real father of nation Ambedkar that all these upper caste people are crying hoarse. Now the constituion grants equal rights to everyone something which the Brahmins could never comphrehend. Hence the problem for the Brahmins. Now they talk of equality, humanism and all those things which are very foreign to them. They don’t have any option as their days are numbered. They create NGOs and claim that they work for some of the dispossed so that they can maintain the status quo and enjoy their rights. We know very well all these NGOs and how the urban elite brahminical upper classes working for these NGOs. Just another ploy like Gandhi’s ‘Harijan’ strategy to exploit dalits. Sorry no takers among the Dalits for your new games. Try something else.

    • sidharth said

      very true.carry on .proud of you

  31. You really are a racist aren’t you? Just based upon your pure logic that every brahmin is a oppressing upper class racist in itself shows how much disregard you have for logic and common sense. The very fact that you consider no brahmin can genuinely work for any Charitable organization or an NGO states how cruel minded a prick you are.

    Gandhi was a criminal in many ways but Gandhi was also the reason why today you are here writing this in a public forum such as the internet. If not for Gandhi there would have been no awareness amongst the oppressors that calling someone a “Shudhra” and treating them inferiorly based on their social profiling is a wrong doing. Much of Ambedkar’s ideology clearly supports and has strong foundations in Gandhism.

    Its quite a pity you have no clue about the history yet talk about Ambedkar as if he was your uncle and he told you everything you know about him now when in reality you are as confused and ill minded as your dalit political counterparts who take advantage of poor dalits for a mere vote bank cause.

  32. praf t said

    This guy dalit nation is a muslim mullah trying to divide hindus.

  33. happyhindu said

    There are 2 sides to life:

    1) The evil side: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119870649955551321.html?mod=googlenews_wsj and this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/01/08/basant108.xml

    2) The good side:
    http://www.sulabhtoiletmuseum.org/profile.htm

    Which side you want to be on depends on whether you genuinely want to remove ‘caste’ from our ‘system’ irrespective of whatever ‘caste’ or ‘system’ you are born into.

    Please remember:
    1) All ‘upper caste’ people do not hate ‘lower caste’ people.
    2) All ‘lower caste’ people do not hate ‘upper caste’ people.

  34. dalitnation said

    So we are trying to divide hindus. These brahmins are so pathetic. It is they who created Jati and Varna and now they say we are dividing Hindus. Go look at your Manusmrithi, the filthy shit you Brahmins created and then you will know who divided Hindus. The dalits were never Hindus infact you never even wanted us as Hindus. Now you are crying that we are mullahs and missionaries. Look We are dalits and non hindus and we are buddhists follower of Babasaheb. So don’t try your brahminical tricks with us.

  35. happyhindu said

    I might just agree with you dalitnation on one thing — like buddhism, sometimes I think Jainism is the best form of faith — no varna, no jati, nothing — its a liberating and empowering feeling.

  36. happyhindu said

    But again please remember: All so-called ‘upper caste’ people do not hate so-called ‘lower caste’ people. All so-called ‘lower caste’ people do not hate so-called ‘upper caste’ people.

  37. happyhindu said

    It would also be nice to rememebr that not all hindu scriptures are so polarized. Some are, not all (example: Krishna said: Karmeva gururishvara (Karma alone is man’s guru, nothing but karma alone is his Ishwara)).

    Like I accept my loved ones and myself with all the good and bad in us / me, I accept my religion too with its good and bad. Like no human being is perfect, no religion is perfect too. We all just aim for perfection in every lifetime.

  38. fallen monk said

    Happyhindu said : “All so-called ‘upper caste’ people do not hate so-called ‘lower caste’ people. All so-called ‘lower caste’ people do not hate so-called ‘upper caste’ people.”

    It doesn’t matter if 0.001 % “upper” castes do not hate the “lower” castes , because a clear majority is as good as all.Dalitnation’s views are quite interesting , but they are quite exaggerated too.Ash’s marriage to a tree is a completely ridiculous , brahminical and funny event.I am sure all the world must have had a good laugh seeing this.

    Hinduism is complete bullshit.It is alone the most prominent factor for the pathetic, underdeveloped and corrupt condition of India , as it is now.For Indian to develop , hinduism must be rooted out from here.

    Some idiots are claiming that the author of this blog is a mullah whose trying to divide the hindus.These hindus are complete ignorants , as they have no knowledge of their own religion (if it can be called so) , but they do not hesitate to claim their religion as the greatest and the truest in the world.
    The very basis and foundation of Hinduism is division.We , the oppressed and discriminated , have no choice but to talk in terms of the oppressors.Hence , we use terms like sudras , brahmins etc , and not because we want to divide people.We stand for true equality.

    • Religion said

      Fallenmonk: “Hinduism is complete bullshit.”

      My reply: It does seem you people are a gang of ISI supported Pakis, trying to spread hatred in India, and to divide us by seeking to incite people, with such exaggerated statements, typical of Paki Hindu/ India bashers.

      Thankfully, Hinduism is not a religion at all. It is one of the best spiritual systems, and the oldest one, with its roots deeply set into Paganism, with its deep connection with nature, that is one of the few spiritual systems that still seek to maintain the bond between humans and nature, through nature worship, as ‘religion’ was originally meant to be.

      One of the strongest features of Hinduism is its fluidity and adaptability with changing times — which also unfortunately caused the oppressive rigid caste system to set in. This system was certainly not conceptualized as such.

      The caste system in its rigid form came into play because of a variety of complex factors, which although also included Brahmin politics, but was essentially caused by the mixing of numerous groups and races of people from all across the globe and the rising tensions, which were absorbed and reflected by the fluid Hindu so-called ‘religion,’ and then exploited by the group in power — the Brahmins.

      A very important catalyst of this unfortunate set of events was the long Islamic rule of India (which ended the golden era of ancient India), and later the British rule, during which time Hinduism (sic) was crushed, and so it failed to grow. Instead, it started to stagnate.

      Furthermore, the rulers tried to exploit this weakness by seeking to empower one caste against the other, and thus aiding in (rather, initiating) the formation of this oppressive rigid caste system.

      Again, to shatter your accusation of Hinduism being the originator of the oppressive caste system, we all know that every other religion in south Asia, be it Islam or Christianity or Buddhism, discriminates or divides themselves on the caste lines, if not formally, then informally, but just as strongly.
      I have seen Muslims practise as much casteism, if not more, than some of the most oppressive upper castes. I have seen them putting down Dalits (including Dalit Muslims) in the worst possible manner. I have also seen some of them take pride in their ancestors being upper caste Hindus. And this pride is not religious pride. But one of race or creed (whether or not its valid). Like I said, the roots of caste system is in the clash caused by various ethnic communities merging in one land (although, this cannot be simplified as, all Brahmins or upper-caste communities being Aryans or superior and all lower caste communities being non-Aryans or aboriginals or natives).

      Even if you ‘root out Hinduism,’ casteism will remain strong, because people will practise it no matter what religion they follow. Of course, they’re now demanding reservations for Christian and Muslim Dalits. If the caste system was integral to Hinduism, there could never have been a ‘Christian Dalit,’ since one would cease to be a Dalit, the moment one converts to Christianity. Instead, even generations after being converted, the Dalit remains a Dalit. And as persecuted as before.

      And within Hinduism, casteism is not only a matter of Dalits vs the upper-caste. There is immense casteism within the Brahmin caste/ Kshatriya caste, etc … including within the lower caste. One Dalit community sees itself as superior than the other. They will not intermarry with each other. They will oppress the ones lower to them, just as the ones higher to them oppress them. This phenomenon can easily be seen in the way the Other backward castes see the SCs or the SCs see the STs and the so-called ‘untouchables,’ and so on, even if all of them can be said to be part of the non-upper caste slot.

      Fortunately, it is the very fluidity and flexibility of the so-called Hindu religion, which allowed it to be corrupted by the tensions of racism and creedism, which has the potential today, to set it free from the evils of the rigid caste system. The strong feelings of kinship based on caste may not go, at least not in the near future, but, the religion itself can be purged of caste politics (to a large extent, its already done). AND most importantly, all castes can become equal in the eyes of the law and in practical, social terms. This is also something which is happening very fast, of course, because, we as Indians, helped by the fluidity of the Hindu religion, are choosing to make it happen by taking affirmative action to end the caste system.

      I can tell you — had this happened in a society dominated by any other religion, any change would have been filled with immense blood shed, if at all possible.

      E.g., if Islam at the time of its formation, would have been faced with the issue of different ethnicities suddenly sharing one land and trying to save their individuality, they would have incorporated it in their religious doctrines, and then you could never have gotten rid of it.

      The ground is just ripe in India for abolishing the caste system. For one thing, today, Indians are so intermixed ethnically, that there is hardly any pure ethnicity of anything now. So, the original motivation for maintaining distance from each other is increasingly abating. Even otherwise, a lot of social and political movement is changing things at a fast pace.

      Of course, this is not something that the ISI and anti-India elements (which I strongly suspect the author of this article and his supporters to be), do not want to happen. They are interested in exploiting the sense of oppression that the Dalits have felt, and the weaknesses of the old system, to create another area of conflict and extremism, when these weaknesses can be and are being solved through positive action.

      This is very similar to what such anti-India elements did in Punjab by inciting the Sikhs — by inventing false tales about how the Sikhs are persecuted by the Hindus … and similarly, they have created trouble in Kashmir by inciting the Muslims there by telling false tales of persecution by so-called “Hindu” India. If the authors seek to overly implicate or rally against Hinduism, while inciting a particular group of people, you can be sure of the ISI involvement.

      We as a nation, whether we are Dalits, or Brahmins or Muslims or whatever, should be extremely careful about such anti-India elements and not let them divide us.

      • Akaula Kaula said

        To the extent you said Hinduism is not a religion, you are right. But it is not a spiritual system (what is the word for spiritual in Indian languages?) but a Dharma tradition. What is Dharma is a separate topic.

        In traditional society of the past there were three legs of Power.
        (1) Political Power, (2) Military Power, and (3) Economic Power.
        In traditional India (1) Political Power was with the King and his entourage of Ministers. If you study Indian History most of the Ministers were non-Brahmans, except Rajya Guru.
        (2) Military Power was with Xshatriyas and not Brahmans
        (3) Economic power was with Vashyas and not Brahmanas.
        In fact Manu Simriti dictates Brahmanas to be poor. Most of this community lived on Alms collected by their pupil from the adjoining Villages.
        Thsi should tell any thinking person that (1) Brahmanas did not have power to force exploitation (2) Even if some had the very dictates of live in poverty would remove the motivation for exploitation. For if they exploited they should have been rich. But every where you see, the Brahmana is refered as “Daaridra Brahmana”. So they statement that Brahmanas exploited systematically falls flat. But then we can’t help people who choose to rely on history written by colonialists and Marxists.

        So enjoy your colonial narration.

  39. fallen monk said

    I don’t know why so many brahmins (in fact , hindus) took the effort of checking this link out even though the URL of this blog contains the word “dalit”.These hindus are taking lots of interest in dalits , adivasis and other minorities nowadays.I am sure they are associated with some right wing fascist hindu organizations like RSS , and , being brainwashed by the religion as well as the organization , have the motive of weakening the dalit ideology.
    Retaliation by the dalits (the oppressed) is inevitable when the hindus have been oppressing us since ages.There is a limit to the patience of any human being.Why are these hindus surprised now?
    I request my brethren – all who stand for equality , including the dalits – that we must not let our determination be weakened by these cowardice tactics of the hindus.

    • Akaula Kaula said

      That is because we have given up on you yet. We know you are victim of colonial historical narration. As I said earlier, you will continue to be used, currently by Missionary or Mullah, and in the past by your own admission by Brahman. Who knows when you will come out of images of Victim hood.

  40. fallen monk said

    I came across a post by a gentleman claiming to be a shudra and yet supporting the Hindu structure.This is not surprising as he is a Hindu at the end of the day.He is happy being in the bottom of the hindu social ladder and , perhaps , is unaware that the reverred manusmriti is harshest on him and his brethren.Such sudras are even more dangerous than the brahmins themselves.They are bootlickers of the “upper” caste hindus and are happy being in the position they are.
    It is better to ignore such boot-lickers.

  41. Naveen Rudriah said

    I am a dalit and I belong to a Scheduled Caste community of Karnataka. I am in the state administrative service. I am involved in some dalit organizations and we work for the upliftment for dalits and their rights. Our families are staunch Hindus since many many generations. Our family deity is Marikamba of Banvasi and have ties with the temple trust since generations. There are many in our families who are in government service and we are being forced from so called dalit leaders to fight against Hinduism and become Christians, Muslims or Budhists. I have been personally asked by some so called dalit christians to come and join christianity and abuse hinduism and I have been promised many financial benefits. I know of many of my friends and relatives who are dalits who have also been asked these things. I was educated in the Ramakrishna mission and I hold Swami Vivekanada and Mahatma Gandhi as some of my Idols.It was Mahatma Gandhi who stopped the animal sacrifice in Marikamba temple in Banavasi. I have great regards for Babasaheb Ambedkar and agree with him in all counts except on the fact of ridiculing hinduism. Hinduism like other religions had / has many evils. But it is a great religion and gives utmost importance to spirituality and humanism. All the abuse heaped by these so called dalits cannot change this relaity of Hinduism. What is important is to understand that we are all one human race and not create more divisions.

    I have interacted with many many brahmins and other so called upper caste and have never been discriminated or anything. Most of them don’t even know what manusmrithi is. Infact it is the others who know more about manusmrithi than brahmins. I have always been on an equal footing with everyone. I don’t believe in caste and all that non sense. I have also not been subjected to any discrimination. But I know that dalits have been discriminated for generations but just abusing Hinduism due to some vested intrest is very dangerous for our country. ALso dalits have been discriminated not just by Hindus but by christians and muslims also. One more thing most Dalits know is that it is these so called savoirs of Dalits who belong to OBC and BC castes who have exploited dalits more than Brahmins. I know many Brahmins among my teachers and they have been the most ideal people with highest human values that I have ever seen in my life. There are many anti-national forces who are now mascarading as saviors of dalits. Their only agenda is to denigrate Hinduism, disintegrate india and convert people to islam and christianity. I have been approached by many organizations to work for them as we have a strong support in North and central karnataka. Some of these organizations are dangerous and they have anti national agenda. In Karnataka we have the Dalit Sangarshana Samithi, Joseph D Souza of Indian Christian council who hide themselves as Dalit freedom network and dalit voice of V.T.Rajashekar. It should also be understood that most of these people like V.T. Rajashekar, Joseph D SOuza and Kancha Iliaih are not dalits. V.T.Rajashekar is a shetty, Joseph D Souza is a goan christian and D souza’s are all converted to christianity from brahmins during portugese rule. Kancha Iliaih is from the Kuruma community and not a dalit. So all these people talking about are not from any oppressed caste. I know from some close associates that they have ties with terrorist organizations and dalit empowerment id just a mask they use. Some of the people in my family converted to buddhism as shown by babasaheb but the irony is they are only buddhists politically and they are hindus by all standards. and another funny thing is every year in october and december they again reconvert to buddhism in political functions. We need to be wary of all these forces who are trying to garner our support and use us to further some anti national agendas.

  42. Indopilia said

    @Fallen Monk –

    “” don’t know why so many brahmins (in fact , hindus) took the effort of checking this link out even though the URL of this blog contains the word “dalit”.””

    I don’t think you know how to read. The caption of the article says “Aishwarya Rai victim of brahmin conspiracy”. So brahmins like me are just curious what this great conspiracy is. As it turns out we realize that people who have wrriten this and people like you who support it are absolute morons who talk about all high sounding words. Can there be anything more ridiculous than this article. All that stuff like Aishwarya Rai being prevented from marrying salman khan and all that. I initially encountered this article while searching for Bollywood conspiriacies. When i read it the first time I thought this is some kind of satire and then I realised that this fellow who wrote this is quite serious. Can there be anything more ridiculous than this article. Also this blog has nothing much to do with Dalits and just bashes Brahmins without any rhyme or reason. It should be appropriately titled ‘Brahmin Bashing Nation’.
    Also you make unfounded claims like “Social Hierarch and conrol in hinduism. Can you tell me one single organization or a group of organizations like your muslim or christian establishments that Hindus have and who belive in the caste system and controlling and maintaining it. Basically the caste hierarchies do not have any central control and it is more like to each his own.

    • Kavyyaa said

      Are we in 21st century? Why more and more people go after religions and Gods?

  43. “Hinduism is complete bullshit.It is alone the most prominent factor for the pathetic, underdeveloped and corrupt condition of India , as it is now.For Indian to develop , hinduism must be rooted out from here.”

    - fallen monk, your claims are baseless. If rooting out religion is the answer to everything (although im glad to root out all religion since im an atheist myself) then Christianity and Islam should go first. Both these religions claim the no believers to be infidels and claim everyone should be converted by any means possible, either by persuasion or by force (read as kill if not converted).

    While i agree hinduism is complete bullshit its certainly better shit compared to the former two i mentioned. Christianity and Islam both of them do not consider a female perspective of god. God is all male to them, rules are made by men and for men, women have nothing and are more or less cattle.

    At least in this perspective hinduism has millions of female dieties and claims every being is equally man and woman and represent both. For this reason alone Hinduism is a better evil than male chauvinistic Christianity and Islam.

    Shariat laws can kill women if even they suspect adultery, no need to prove. Similarly the Book of Genesis claims the Woman is under the man and is his will.

    Although Hinduism also has the devadasi system this is a 1000 year old practice that does not exist anymore. Manu scripts are things people even dont know exist today. Any religion (despite the evil) that does not force itself on others by any means is good enough. We live in a egalitarian society. Nobody has the right to force anything on us. Not even Christ or Mohammed.

  44. fallen monk said

    Why are the hindus dragging other religions into the discussion?Some are even giving long explanations of how and why other religions are so inferior to hinduism?I am not surprised however.Since , hindus do not have any knowledge of their scriptures and religion , it is inevitable that they will be interested to comment about other religions.It is not uncommon for a hindu to bash Islam and christianity and praise his/her own religion as the greatest and truest?Neither me nor any other dalit in this blog has even mentioned the name of Islam and christianity.Who cares what other religions preach?It isn’t worth replying them.

    However , there is one post by a supposed dalit , as he claims himself to be , which intrigues me the most.He is proud of belonging to a religion , the scriptures of which clearly state his position with that of the animals.In fact , some animals like cow are given much better position than him and his brethren.The hindus have only given him derogatory terms like “achhut” , “mleccha” , “chandala” etc etc.Such people are far more dangerous than the oppressors themselves.He claims that since , after serving their “upper” caste masters , he has never been discriminated , that means that no dalit is being oppressed.I request my brethren to be wary of such venoms in their endeavor to live with pride and dignity.

  45. Shankara said

    I am a brahmin and a practising brahmin and since this whole site is avowedly anti brahimin It is incumbent on me to reply on these idiotic subjects written by this acidhead who claims to be representing Dalits and a so called dalit nation and also respond to ‘Fallen Monk’. First this is an extremely idiotic article and quite comical also (aishwarya rai, abhishek bachan and salman khan and all that stuff). That this post is getting so much importance and even respect from this guy called ‘Fallen Monk’ shows the extent to which anti-Hindu propoganda and Hindu bashing has stooped into. Can it get more absurd than this.

    Fallen monk says “Why are the hindus dragging other religions into the discussion?Some are even giving long explanations of how and why other religions are so inferior to hinduism?”

    Why other religions are dragged into discussion is because under the guise of Dalits these proselytizing religions are encouraging a malicious campaign against Hindus and Hinuduism. Just look at the dalit nation site and they have explicitly stated their love of these other religions and also their aim is to convert all Hindus into these religions. They have also pitted Hindusims Vis a Vis other proselytizing religions as if all these religions are paragons of virtue. Ever heard of slave trade, crusades and burning witches.

    Fallen Monk says “Since , hindus do not have any knowledge of their scriptures and religion”

    This is an old evangelical and mulla claim on Hinduism. Practising Hindus are highly knowledgeable about their religion and scriptures. Hindus also place a very high regard on scriptural scholarship. But unfortunately for people like ‘Fallen Monk’ these scriptures he talk about are the scriptures that evangelists and mullahs appropriate on Hinduism. Hinduism unlike the semetic religions have many different scriptures and not one single body of work like Quran or bible. The idea that Hindus don’t have knowledge of their religion is a old propoganda created first by the Muslim invaders and strengthened by the british. The knowledge of Hindu scriptures according to these people should only be confined to Manusmrithi ( a smrithi of several hundred verses out of which 6 of these verses describe caste system and oppression on women) and a few other texts they themselves use to define Hinduism. This is the same propoganda which the so called dalit movement also plays with and uses it as their philosophical foundation. Manusmrithi’s high importance in the hindu scriptural tradition was created by the British and they excluded all the other Hindu scriptures like the vedas, vedanta, agama, yoga, sankya and tantras. The fact that your phislosophical masters confine Hinduism to only one single smrithi (remember smrithi as against shruthi is inferior and can be overridden) shows your profound ignorance of Hinduism. Also for your information the most popular Hindu scriptures were authored and revealed by Dalits. Ever heard of Veda Vyasa and Valmiki. Also Hindu scriptures are not confined to sanskrit scriptures but also have the teachings of innumerable number of gurus and traditions in vernacular languages. As a practising brahmin I can tell you the scriptures we refer in our traditions and (unfortunately for you and the other hindu bashers) Manu Smrithi does not figure prominently in this. If you want to know more about Brahmin practices you can contact me and I will give you a first hand account on our practices and beliefs. This is an unchanged tradition since several centuries going across to millenia. Every day as a brahmin I pray and practice ‘Lokaha samsthaha sukino bavanthu’ that is the well being of all sentient beings.

    You say “It is not uncommon for a hindu to bash Islam and christianity and praise his/her own religion as the greatest and truest?”

    As a matter of fact it is quite uncommon for Hindus to bash Islam and christianity as against how the latter religions do to Hinduism. Just observe and see all the popular mass movements of Hinduism and you will find they are inclusive of all religions and speak and practice ‘sarva dharma samadhbhava’. Also you won’t find any mass movement of Hinduism which supports caste system. Just name one of them. If you find such a one you won’t have any trouble to get all the hindus including the so called upper, lower and middle caste who will fight against it. That you find that Caste system is an inseparable part of Hinduism shows your ignorance of Hinduism and also shows the extent and the roots of how you identify with a propoganda created by the British in the 1800′s. Hindus bashing christinity and Islam is a reaction against the vicious and high sounding campaign these religions have made against Hinduism. The fact that you only find Hindus bashing islam and christianity is that your experience of Hinduism is confined only to those spaces of inter religious conflict (like the current website). It is a big world out there. Just go and see.

    Also it is implicit in your post that Hindus should remain silent when abused. How has this belief come about – the image of the tolerant and submissive hindu so submissive even to the extent of even denying himself or herself the right to assert his beliefs and identity. This is because of the centuries of political oppression on Hindus. Why does Muslims and Christians find it a problem if a Hindu just claims that he is a Hindu and asserts his identity. Ever wonder why?

    Also your call for dalits to dissociate from Hinduism shows your highest ignorance.There are many hindu temples owned controlled and run by dalits. I know and visit many of them. The majority of dalits you talk about are staunch hindus. My one simple question and a question asked by some people on this article is – who is controlling the caste system. Please tell us that central organization(s) who are doing this. Is it the Brahmins? India has a constitution and also civil codes for Hindus, Muslims and chrstians. Your argument is just a ‘strawman argument’ against the Brahmins. Since when did Brahmins ever get political power in India. India was ruled by Kshatriyas, Jains, Buddhists, Muslims, Rajputs, Marathas, Portugese, Dutch, French and British in its long history. There were many rulers from Backward castes and dalits. It is only as a result of democracy some brahmins could be elected to power in independent india since 1947. This was through a legitimate and democratic process. All these brahmins fought against the caste system and other practices. Have you ever heard of Jawaharlal Nehru and Krishna Menon. Give me an instance when these people supported caste system. Even some teachers of Ambedkar, Joythi Phule and Narayan Guru who encouraged them to fight against the caste system and social ills were Brahmins. Ambedkar himself has acknowleged this. Brahmins have been the most progressive people in this country as compared to many other communities and they have been unfairly maligned. There has always been class struggles in every feudal soceity and India is no exception. Europe, China and the arab world are no exceptions for this, they have had higher degrees of genocide, racial abuse and slavery as compared to India. Abusing Hinduism for these fuedal practices is absolute nonsense.

    Hindusim and India has had several reform movements to correct the social evils like untouchability and violence. We had great reformers from Bassavanna, Ramanuja to vivekanada and Gandhi who were opposed to all the social evils and stood for a Humanitarian and a just world. Also their reforms were firmly rooted in Hindu values and they had a timelessness about them. They even cut across religious barriers as they spoke of eternal values of sanatana dharma. Your unwillingness to see this and just abuse Hinduism shows your extraordinary stupidity. Tell me one popular modern Hindu religious mass leader who has called Dalits as Achut and untouchables and called for oppression of dalits. There are none. There are many modern Hindu leaders from dalit backgrounds who have large followings across all Hindus and spiritual people of other religions. Ever heard of Mata Amritananda Mayi. Just repeating a lie again and again does not become truth.

  46. fallen monk said

    First of all , let me tell you that I am not associated with dalit nation.I have also acknowledged in one of my earlier posts that this article is , indeed , quite exaggerated.Nevertheless , it does have some truth in it.
    It is not necessary to “love” one religion to bash another.I (don’t know about dalit nation) condemn hinduism for reasons , without actually being biased towards others.Almost all religions have inflicted tyranny on people.
    It is true , however , that most hindus have no knowledge of their scriptures.Your case is quite exceptional , as you happen to be a brahmin , the keeper of the scriptures.And even among brahmins there are only few left who are having even little knowledge about the scriptures.
    You are quite paradoxical , as you write a long passage showing the little significance of caste system in hinduism , but at the same time state that you are a practicing “brahimin” (i.e belonging to a caste).I stand for complete eradication of castes and caste system.I am sure you , being a hypocrite , wouldn’t want castes to be dissolved.The fact that some epics are authored by dalits doesn’t make them immune to discrimination and oppression.The reality is that dalits are considered “untouchables” , “low” , “impure” etc in the minds of caste hindus , no matter if the constitution forbids it.The way you mention evils of other religions like slavery , witchcraft etc makes it sound like a justification of caste system.Who cares what other religions are infliciting on its “followers”?You say that class system and oppression has existed in almost all parts of the globe.But there is one more fact that you should keep deep in your mind so that you never forget : because of this oppression there has always been a rebellion too to overthrow the older system.
    You ask who is controlling the caste system?But your efforts in depicting yourself as an innocent are too weak.You know very well , being a brahmin , that castes exist in the mind of every hindu and although no one directly reads the scriptures that profess such practices , but every hindu learns it from his elders about caste and how it should be practiced.Every hindu father passes these “values” to his son.
    Even your brahmin brethren have different opinions about caste nowadays.Some justify it using genes , impurity etc , some are little apologetic , some are hypocrites like you who deny any importance of caste system but are staunch followers, some proudly practice it.But there is one thing common among you all.That you all do follow caste system and this is deeply engraved in your minds.

    Throw away your ignorance that dalits require other religions to thwart hinduism.Many , like me , being atheists , religionless , do not require any religion to fight caste system (read hinduism) and its followers.And also remember , this fight is not only for oppression it is also for misinformation about religion , gods , tradition etc that you spread and have spread since ages.

    • Kavyyaa said

      stop all this nonsense about caste and dat too in the 21st century…….. aishwarya is not the only beautiful lady as there are more beautiful girls from different religions in manglaore from all religions…..bunts stop boasting using aishwarya shilpa and sunil………….. brahmins stop discriminating and billavas stop being conservative and backward and bunts are rich only by boating and doin all the underworld work as all the dons come form bunts

  47. ga kunder said

    hi
    i am from udupi, i like reading , as per my knowlege bunts,billavas and mogaveera from udupi are lowercaste people, right now bunts are financialy strong they and bramans making them feel they fallen from sky,because bramans other places are resrved for other caste(like,mouth,nabi,feet), now billavas and mogaveeras also becoming strong, what catagoery bramanas put them let’s see, and poor koragas routhlessley beaten by bramanas for centurys still messing with life. Is contacting V.T. Rajashekar is legel, i heard he was arrested on 1986 for antinationalist activites. i am nationalist. but i like to email him beacause he is from native place.can you provide me his email id.

    • Kavyyaa said

      well i do agree with you but this dominating community of bunts should stop boasting and do publicity and each bunt says i’m proud to be a bunt…. Thnak god we were never born int he bunt religion where u have take a loan and get your daughters married according to the qualifcation of the guys.All bunt men are big fucking bastards , they flirt around and when they have to get married will go back to their religions and get married to their gals I’m not against them as i do have lots of bunts friends but then they have to change their attitude and if they see any goodlooking beautiful gal they say she is a bunt. Brahmins are smart calculating and the cunning peopleas they dunno what a religion is discriminating people till today and no doubt dats’ why hinduism is becoming smaller as all are getting converted to other religions

  48. Shankara said

    “You are quite paradoxical , as you write a long passage showing the little significance of caste system in hinduism , but at the same time state that you are a practicing “brahimin” (i.e belonging to a caste).I stand for complete eradication of castes and caste system”.

    Fallen Monk read my post properly before commenting.Where have I condoned the caste system. In fact I also stand for the complete eradication of caste and caste system.

    My being a brahmin has nothing to do with caste system. I have strong scriptural foundations in the Hindu vedic traditions which support it. Do you know that the definition of a brahmin as per the vedas – ‘Brahmin means one who strives to know Brahman – or truth’. Even the Bhagavad Gita the most widely respected book of Hindus uphold that the Brahmin is based on Guna (Psychological inclinations and qualities) and Karma (the kind of work a person does) and not on birth. What is wrong with being a brahmin. My being a brahmin has no reference to anyone or is not disparaging of any community. It is a spiritual path I follow. Also the spiritual path teaches me discipline, love of all people and overcoming my conditionings and shortcomings.

    You say “Even your brahmin brethren have different opinions about caste nowadays.Some justify it using genes , impurity etc , some are little apologetic , some are hypocrites like you who deny any importance of caste system but are staunch followers, some proudly practice it. You ask who is controlling the caste system?But your efforts in depicting yourself as an innocent are too weak.You know very well , being a brahmin , that castes exist in the mind of every hindu and although no one directly reads the scriptures that profess such practices , but every hindu learns it from his elders about caste and how it should be practiced.Every hindu father passes these “values” to his son.”

    You talk as if you represent and know the opinion of all Brahmins. Can you atleast give references of organisations of brahmins who have claimed any of these things. I have read the literature and speeches of the brahmana sabhas both in India and the US and nowhere have they spoken about the things you talk about. You are just good at throwing baseless arguements. I wonder who is a hypocrite. You just parrot and repeat the same accusations on the Brahmins as said by Islamists, evangelists, marxists and vicious subalterns like this dalit nation. Calling me a hypocrite is an ad hominem argument and has no logical basis. That you repeat that caste system is synonymous with Hinduism shows your ignorance of Hinduism and the extent to which you believe in the propoganda created by you know who. You haven’t been able to answer a simple question of how brahmins could oppress people without any political power. Your words are filled with lies and malicious propoganda. How do you know that every Hindu father passes all these so called values to his son. It is similar to the arguments of Kancha Ilaiah has made in his book that every Hindu father and Mother are vicious people.

    Your argument as I have repeated earlier is based on creating a strawman out of Brahmins. It is quite similar to accusing all Christians of all times and places of burning witches and murdering people in crusades. It is also quite similar to accusing all muslims of spreading their brand of religion through conquests and pillaging of civilizations and also accusing all Muslims as Suicide bombers. Can I also accusse you who are an atheist for creating the pograms killing millions and millions of people in the atheistic communist goverments of Stalin and Pol pot. Obviously that would be a ridicoulous accusation. So is your tirade against Hindus and brahmins.

    It is my fundamental right to follow my spiritual practice as long as it falls within and complies with the democratic and humanitarian values enshrined in our constitution. And your call to fight and destroy Hinduism is fascist and vicious and against the fundamental right of religion enshrined in the constitution of India.

    Infact Hinduism as a religion has a strong atheistic and agnostic tradition within itself. There have been atheists and materialists like Charvaka and the lokayathas and atheistic philosophies like Sankya. Your avowed aim of destroying religion and converting everyone to your brand of atheism can be best acheived if you concentrate your energies towards the two strong monotheistic proselytizing religions of Christianity and Islam. Hindusim infact is a politically weak and non proselytizing religion and is no threat to your atheistic beliefs as compared to christianity and islam. Obviously you wouldn’t have the guts to do that as you are content in attacking the strawman Hindus and Hinduism without knowing even the bare minimum of its teachings. Wonder who is a hypocrite.

  49. fallen monk said

    Let me begin my reply to you with your definition of the brahmin : “Brahmin means someone who strives to know Brahman”.This definition is given in the upanishads and not the vedas.The oldest reference to varna system is in the Rig veda wherein the four classes are said to have emerged from purusha-suktha.Being a brahmin , you must be aware of it too.Along with it there are various smritis (like manusmriti) , brahmanas etc , which although were written well after Buddhism had already been established as a major religion , which gave detailed exposition of castes and duties , with exclusice rights being given to the brahmins and down upto the sudras in decreasing “ranks” (notice that there was no “oucaste”).Bhagwat Gita’s verse that you have shown is merely a restatement of this division only with an additional reason attached to this division.Bhagwat Gita was also written in the time when Jainism and Buddhism were far more widespread than the vedic religion.
    The concept of “karma” , “re-incarnation and incarnation” , “vegetarianism” etc is not even mentioned in the vedas.I challenge you if you could show me any verse , among the millions , in the first three vedas which even mention terms like “karma” or “re-incarnation”.I can’t comment on the fourth one , as it was written in the post-Buddha period and also I am not well acquainted with it.Coming back to the definition of Brahmin , which emerges from the upanishads and most likely written in the post-Buddha period , would you yourself , being a brahmin (by birth) , consider more authentic than that of the vedas themselves?
    So much so for the scriptures , even if the scriptures didn’t contain such horrific verses agains humanity, this wouldn’t change the current (and past) reality – that which dalits had to suffer for so long and continue to suffer.
    You gave example of athiest stalin and nazi christian and claim that all brahmins are not oppressive.I don’t know what kind of brahmin you are.Even if you never discriminated against any of “lower” castes in your life , your case would still be that of an atheist stalin who is not representative of all atheists.There may be few brahmins who are modern in thinking , but most still remain oppressive and suffer from extraordinary superiority complex.To be frank , I have nothing against brahmins , as already I don’t believe in caste system.In fact , I would rather support the preservation of Brahminic culture which is dying in this modern age (modernization and rationality is against brahminicism)
    , as most brahmins are moving west.As it is they are so few in numbers , so it hardly matters what Brahmins alone practice.
    But I cannot tolerate the casteism and oppression coming from the hindus towards my brothers and sisters.This hinduism is a result of Brahminism and so , to eradicate caste system (Hinduism) we have no choice but to strike at its heart – brahminism.
    Don’t remind me again and again of Christianity and Islam.I know they too are shit , just like Hinduism.

  50. happyhindu said

    Thanks Shankara. Your writing is much admired.

    All I have realized everywhere is that religion is a tool of social and political manipulation.

    Theoretically speaking, religion is fixed within certain boundry lines of faith; and adhering to a religion itself means non-acceptance of other forms of faith / other schools of thot (naturally ‘growth’ becomes limited / ceases to exist in these cases).

    Sanatana is not exactly a religion — it is an amalgamation of various philosophies — it allows us to ponder and grow spiritually — it has always been about the “growth of the mind” (brahman: brah – grow, man – mind) and attaining the nirvikalpa samadhi as the ultimate; and contributing to civilization / science, etc along the way.

    However, outfits like dalitnation and people like Kancha Iliah are so supportive of theoretical religion (with Kancha openly supporting evangelism), that their credibility comes under cloud.

    A brahman has always been a man of austerity not of birth. After buddhism, it just became a tradition to pass on the baton from father to son — as a means to keep the vedic schools of thot (encompassing theism, agnosticsm and even atheism) alive.

    A hindu needs a brahmin as much as a brahmin needs a hindu. Its not about reinforcing ‘casteism’ but about keeping sanatana going.

  51. Shankara said

    @Fallen Monk – A long response to you
    Let me begin my reply to you with your definition of the brahmin : “Brahmin means someone who strives to know Brahman”.This definition is given in the upanishads and not the vedas.

    The Upanishads are called vedanta meaning the culmination of vedas. They are not opposed to Vedas and are very much a part of them but unlike the Karma Kanda’ of the vedas which is based on rituals the upanishads termed as Jnana Kanda bring about a reformed form of metaphysical knowledge. This again shows the reformatory elements even in the very beginning of the Brahmin tradition. The oldest reference to the four varnas are in Purusha Suktha. Again the description of purusha suktha is highly symbolic of the purusha with sub divisions of social occupations as related to the bodily parts of the metaphorical Purusha. Can you give me one instance in Rig Veda where varna is mentioned as inherited through heredity. The sociological classification of four varnas mentioned in the Rig Veda is true to any society in the world past, present and future. Don’t we have White collared, Blue collared and all kinds of classifications of workers in the modern day world say in New york or California state. Also for your information there are references in the Upanishads mocking the hereditary classification of varnas wherein the Upanishadic gurus have accepted disciples cutting across caste, class and gender divides. Also remember all this was 3000 years ago. The upanishads have been dated by most historians (even of the left, centre and imperial) to be around 500 – 800 BC. The brahminical cannon has undergone several reformations and redefinitions since then ; primarily due to the efforts of the three latter day acharyas Shankara, madhva and Ramanuja. Brahmins of all denominations consider Vedanta, Brahma Sutras and Bhagwad Gita as the three important canons of their knowledge and practice. All these are derivates of the Vedas and are called as Prasthana Traya.

    Also the caste system in present day India has nothing to do with Vedas much less Vedanta and chaturvarna classification is not evidenced in India other than the conjectures and hypothesis of sociologists with vested interests on this communal and social phenomenon. We now have hundreds and thousands of castes based on historical community and heriditary inheritance. We have every other caste (read community) claiming to be superior than the other. For example the Bunts are a trading community (or caste) have european and mediterranian genetic links which came about through the naval trade in coastal south India. The genetic studies on Bunts have confirmed this. Bunts are a highly exclusive group and they do not encourage inter mingling with other communties w.r.t marriage. It is the same in case of the Parsi community in india. That is one reason why you find caste even in Christian and Muslim communities in India. In India caste is not endemic to Hinduism alone. Caste and social stratification have solidified because of occupational identity and a response to political instability due to invasions. Caste had proved to be a survival mechanism in medeival India.

    Bhagwat Gita was also written in the time when Jainism and Buddhism were far more widespread than the vedic religion.

    The Bhagavad Gita could have been written at a later date than Buddha and Mahavira but in theology there are no elements of Buddhism and Jainism in Bhagwad Gita and the Gita is a text which is an amalgamation and synthesis of Sankya, Vedanta of Upanishads and the yoga of patanjali. There is no reference to say the non-self doctrine of buddhists or the anekantavada of Jainism in the Gita. Anyway what are you trying to prove by providing the dating of Bhagavad Gita. There is no conclusive proof from any of the historians on the dates of this scripture. Why should this date matter to you. Does it cause any trouble to your statements that the Bhagavad Gita talks about timeless spiritual truths and you want to ascribe these beliefs to the influence of Jainism and Buddhism.

    The concept of “karma” , “re-incarnation and incarnation” , “vegetarianism” etc is not even mentioned in the vedas.I challenge you if you could show me any verse , among the millions , in the first three vedas which even mention terms like “karma” or “re-incarnation”.I can’t comment on the fourth one , as it was written in the post-Buddha period and also I am not well acquainted with it.

    Karma, reincarnation and vegetarianism is not mentioned in the karma kanda of the Vedas true. What about it. But in the Jnana Khanda of the Vedas (Upanishads- Vedanta) we have several verses talking about these (not vegetarianism though). Also historians agree that Upanishads were before much before Buddhism. The Buddha mentions the belief of Atma (the Self – Brahman, Atman expounded in Upanishads) and he gives a rebuttal on this atman. So there was certainly this knowledge and system very much in place. Regarding Vegetarianism in the modern world, the Jains and Brahmins have the highest number of Vegetarians as compared to any community. As a Brahmin I practice and treasure this practice of Vegetarianism as highly ethical, humanitarian and compassionate towards the whole of existence. Do you find this as a problem? Is there something wrong in Vegetarianism?

    Coming back to the definition of Brahmin , which emerges from the upanishads and most likely written in the post-Buddha period

    Certainly not. Buddha as a matter of fact has referenced the definition of Brahmin and this is existent in many of the Buddhist sutras. Buddha criticized the bad practices of Brahmins during his times and also highlighted the real and better aspects of Brahmins. If you need to know more about this check out Buddhist sutras like Annatara Brahmana Sutta, Cankii Sutta, Janussoni Brahmana Sutta and even the Dhammapada in the canto of the brahmin. Don’t tell that these were doctored by the Brahmins as these form part of the tripitaka pali canon – the essential teachings of Buddha. There are many other references Sutras in the tipitaka pali cannon talking about Brahman and Brahmins. So it is absolute nonsense that the definition of Brahmin came from the post Buddhistic period. You are probably reading too much of subaltern writings which is considered trash by legitimate historians. That Buddhism is opposed to so called Brahminism is again a myth perpetrated by these psuedo subaltern historians and scholars. Their argument can be blown to bits even using recorded Buddhist History by Buddists themselves. Majority of the disciples of Buddha were brahmins – subuthi, mahakashyapa and many others. Even the latter day Buddhist scholars like Nagarjuna, Nagasena, Bodhidharama, Padmasambhava, Ashvagosha and many many others were Brahmins. Essentially Buddhism was a monastic order which had its members from many communities and Brahmins were also part of it and also it is evident from Buddhist writings that Buddhism and brahmins always peacefully co-existed.
    That Brahmins borrowed vegetarianism from Jains and Buddhists is again a myth. Before the advent of Mahavira and the Buddha there were Shramanas who comprised of ascetics and who were mainly Brahmins. They were vegetarians and lived on raw fruits, vegetables and nuts. Buddha himself practiced austerities under these people from the age of 29 – 35. Says who – Buddhists themselves. The origin of Vegetarianism can be probably traced to the Sankhya classification of Sattwa, Rajas and Tamas. However this is not conclusive. Buddhism also was influenced by Sankhya. Even Dr. Ambedkar acknowledges the prominance of Sankhya and its influence on Buddhism in his baseless and fictional book of ‘Buddha and his Dharma’.

    So much so for the scriptures , even if the scriptures didn’t contain such horrific verses agains humanity, this wouldn’t change the current (and past) reality – that which dalits had to suffer for so long and continue to suffer.

    In what way are Brahmins responsible for the horrific conditions of Dalits. Brahmins were never in power since many many centuries. I am not mentioning that there were no atrocities commited by the so called upper castes on lower castes and Brahmins were flawless. But Brahmins being landless people never had much clout. Also in the current situation that you are talking about where do the Brahmins have power in India. In fact they are discriminated for perceived wrongs. They have been denied entry to educational and goverment institutions in this process of reverse discrimination. A dalit in india has all the privileges. Of course in villages where they are in dire poverty they cannot even exercise them. But who is responsible for this poverty? People who have looted India since ages.
    And who owns land and resources in India – it is the so called OBCs. Even the oppurtunistic BSP who supposedly represent dalits acknowledged this fact. So get your facts straight before talking about oppression and atrocities. Even in the atrocities on Dalits in the recent Khailranji, Jajjhar etc it was the OBCs who were involved. Brahmins were never in the picture but still the colonial hangoverof blame it on the brahmin continues. The only reason Brahmins came to the forefront and could advance themselves was due to the fact that they easily adapted to the english education in 1800’s. The british used them as clerks. Hence you found Brahmins being more educated. Later from the mid of the 18th century it was the Brahmins who led the struggle for the freedom from the imperial rule. These people who fought for freedom could not stand the exploitation of the British and the looting of the resources and the oppression of the British rule. Dr. Ambedkar for example always connived with the British and never fought for the freedom of the country.

    I am not a spokesperson of all the brahmins and like every other castes they have had bad practices and been exclusivists and practiced untouchability and restricted dalits from temple entry. These wrongs have been rectified through several reform movements by raja ram mohan roy, Vidyasagar and many others. Our modern constitution framed by constituent assembly chaired by Dr Ambedkar had many members from the Brahmin community. Dr Ambedkar himself has acknowledged this in his speech in parliament. And this constitution gives the freedom of right to religion. A person like you with fascist inclinations might not believe in these values but they are enshrined in the constitution nevertheless.

    There may be few Brahmins who are modern in thinking, but most still remain oppressive and suffer from extraordinary superiority complex.

    Again what is your proof on this. How few? Have you done any study? Brahmins can be seen in most progressive endeavors in India and abroad. They have been in the forefront of social reform, scientific thought and arts in India. Want proof? Every community feels proud of its achievements so does brahmins. Even different families have this feeling. What’s your problem with this. And the only reaction you can muster against the Brahmins is hurl baseless abuses on them.

    I would rather support the preservation of Brahminic culture which is dying in this modern age (modernization and rationality is against brahminicism), as most brahmins are moving west.As it is they are so few in numbers , so it hardly matters what Brahmins alone practice.

    If it hardly matters why are you so bothered about Brahmins and abusing them. In fact Brahmins have adapted to Modernity and Rationalization much more than any other community. Again you make unsubstantial and baseless arguments. The greatest of western philosophers from Immanuel Kant, Neitsche and Schopanhuer have been influenced by the reason in the Brahminical scriptures. What makes you think Westernization is spoiling Hindu culture. Maybe you are not aware of the cultural influence of Hindus in the west through Yoga and Vedanta.

    This hinduism is a result of Brahminism and so , to eradicate caste system (Hinduism) we have no choice but to strike at its heart – brahminism.

    You know nothing of Hinduism or Brahminism other than writings of some subaltern writers and you are in no firm position to strike at Hinduism least of all at its heart. Only thing you can indulge is in false propoganda. Hinduism is not just Brahminism it is a synthesis and conglomoerate of many different belief systems. Ever heard of Bhakti Movement in Hinduism. This in fact is the prevalent Hindu belief system in India and this had mostly non-brahmins contributing and continuing the tradition. Looks like you are poorly read on the Hindu society, culture and beliefs. And Hindus are 82 % of India’s population and Brahmins among them are 4%. So how confident are you when you are singing the death song of Hinduism. It looks like you have no first hand experience of India or its society. Do you know how prevalent Hinduism is in India? And this Hinduism is not the caste system you are talking about but the essential belief system of Hindus. Obviously as you yourself admitted you don’t have much knowledge in these areas and just content in referring to information from blogs such as these and subaltern writings of fringe elements. As someone mentioned in his critic to hindu bashers like Kancha Ilaiah – Anger is no substitute for substance. This applies to you as well.

  52. happyhindu said

    Fallenmonk, I believe this was meant for me:

    || I came across a post by a gentleman claiming to be a shudra and yet supporting the Hindu structure.This is not surprising as he is a Hindu at the end of the day.He is happy being in the bottom of the hindu social ladder and , perhaps , is unaware that the reverred manusmriti is harshest on him and his brethren.Such sudras are even more dangerous than the brahmins themselves.They are bootlickers of the “upper” caste hindus and are happy being in the position they are. It is better to ignore such boot-lickers. ||

    1) What is wrong in being a shudra?

    Please read the Rudra laghunyasam. Who is God and who are you? Padayor Vishnu stishtathu (Vishnu lies in the feet) — meaning complete surrender at Mahavishnu’s feet is the way to the light (hari) and it is only after this surrender that one can realize Prajnane Brahma stishtathu (growth of the mind comes from cognitive acuity). It is metaphorical and wud mean that a seeker of mental growth / asamprajnata samadhi wud first need to surrender himself / herself at the source of all light and then go about the way to seek it; for God does not bestow this acuity to a man who still holds on to his ego. Yes, I am happy in my mental surrender to Mahavishnu. Am happier in the sense of Chidananda roopa Shivoham Shivoham (of identifying with the bliss of the self / chitta / consciousness for it is only after this identification that I get to travel to Hari). The intelligent ego is the one that helps one give up the unintelligent ego.

    Walking the talk is more important than the mouth that talks. In the past, please note that the doers who defended their faith and gave up their lives (nayaks) were self-declared shudras (or were happy being that since ancient times). They did not consider themselves inferior in anyway to the brahmans, in fact those that were mired with their unintelligent ego considered themselves superior to the preachers / shramans.

    2) Are people such as me ‘bootlickers’?

    I might just want to throw this back at you and accuse you of being a bootlicker of evangelist organizations that pay you for doing what you do.

    Can I bring myself to respect a man just because he is a ‘brahman’ even if he were not to behave like one and wear his vanity on his sleeve — someone who is still hung on his unintelligent ego despite being a so-called brahman? Does that make him a ‘brahman’ at all in the first place and would I be willing to sit with somone like that to seek divinity? Wud all those rituals have any meaning then? Certainly not. It wud be like asking me to respect a man just because he is rich or just because he discovered the atom bomb and therefore decided to be vain. Sorry mate, I would rather respect any man for what he is as a person rather than his birth or abilities.

    3) Are hindu scriptures harsh on me?

    I agree some are. Perhaps some texts were interpolated with harsh injectors because those that got ‘classified’ as shudras were indeed initially non-vedic people, those that indulged in philosophies rather than rituals, with many given to seeking material wealth and therefore making discoveries along that path rather than traveling along the ascetic / shraman path (resulting in the absence of brahmans amongst them). There are only 2 forms of Lakshmi after all – artha or moksha. The non-vedic people walked the former path, the vedic people took to the later path. Later day integration of idealogies / philosophies and amalgamation of the peoples were and are inevitable. But wud scriptures being harsh or not matter in this day and age? Can such things be followed now? So, how does bad literature matter now? I would rather use viveka (sense of discrimination) to read and decide for myself what I want to follow.

  53. fallen monk said

    Firstly , where did my post, that I wrote as a reply to this shankara , go?

    Now coming back to this happy hindu , this scripture that you quoted is a , comparatively , very recent development , and would you yourself consider it as more authentic than the vedas , or at least the upanishads?
    From your posts , it is apparent that you are a vaishnavite, unlike a shaivite or a tantric.Anyway , I would ignore all your justification of being a “sudra” , because I am talking in accordance with rationality and it would be certainly foolish on my side to convince someone who believes that humans evolved from this “mahavishnu” , rationally.Keep aside all your metaphors that you and your hindu brothers – brahmins – keep inventing to fool the masses , and answer my simple question , why your brahmin brother was showing his hypocrisy by saying that caste by birth is not mentioned in your so-called holy scriptures , whereas you , here , are justifying being a sudra by birth?This hinduism is actually not a religion , in fact.As I already said all non-brahmin hindus are unware of their own scriptures and brahmins like shankara fool people with various metaphors and non-sense written in his scriptures.
    Leave aside what is written in the scriptures about caste system , consider what is a reality today , the discrimination and oppression.You yourself claim to be a sudra very proudly , so you know that these divisions are by birth only , regardless of the scriptures.So long as such practices are enjoyed by the hindus , the struggle by dalits and tribals will go on and is inevitable.
    Regarding your justification of being a sudra , as you proved that is indeed very honorable to be a sudra , i.e emerging from mahavishnu’s feet , tell me why do the brahmins not consider themselves to have evolved from the feet?Isn’t it really a nice thing to be a product of this vishnu’s dirty feet?You all are hypocrites , especially you shudras.Even now , I am quite sure that you are not a sudra but a brahmin in disguise of sudra.It is not difficult to identify who’s brahmin.You talk like a brahmin.
    Even if you are indeed a sudra , it is better you remain so and surrender all your mentality , rationality , ethics , intelligence (if any) to this mahavishnu , and continue being a slave of the brahmins.

  54. dalitnation said

    Fallen Monk – Firstly , where did my post, that I wrote as a reply to this shankara , go?

    In this website most of the post are approved if it falls within decent limits and language. And I am sure all your posts have fallen in those limits and are approved. Maybe you have lost those posts in some break out sessions during postings.

  55. happyindianhindu said

    You got me totally wrong fallenmonk.

    || Now coming back to this happy hindu , this scripture that you quoted is a , comparatively , very recent development , and would you yourself consider it as more authentic than the vedas , or at least the upanishads? ||

    Ans: Rudra laghunyasam is not a recent text. It is from the Krishna Yajurved. Please read it.

    || From your posts , it is apparent that you are a vaishnavite, unlike a shaivite or a tantric.Anyway , I would ignore all your justification of being a “sudra” , because I am talking in accordance with rationality and it would be certainly foolish on my side to convince someone who believes that humans evolved from this “mahavishnu||

    There is nothing called Vaishnavite or Shaivite. Hari cannot exist without Hara and Hara without Hari. Shiva is the mind, Vishnu the soul. To travel to the soul, one needs to know his / her mind as a medium that serves in the understanding of the chitta / consciousness.

    || ..why your brahmin brother was showing his hypocrisy by saying that caste by birth is not mentioned in your so-called holy scriptures , whereas you , here , are justifying being a sudra by birth? ||

    Ans: I never justified anything by birth neither do the sanatana scriptures. Please let me know what did I say that led you to think that way.

    ||…all non-brahmin hindus are unware of their own scriptures and brahmins like shankara fool people with various metaphors and non-sense written in his scriptures.||

    Ans: As a social classification, I am a non-brahmin hindu and I decided to explore the scriptures to decide whether I wanted to be a hindu or not. And before I did this, I tried being a christian, then a muslim, then a buddhist. And before all of that, I was raised by an atheist father and a hindu mother; and therefore the atmosphere I was raised in was predominantly atheist. Do not say non-brahmin hindus are unaware of their scriptures. And Shankara does not need to “fool” people, neither do I. We do not gain in anyway from it.

    || You yourself claim to be a sudra very proudly , so you know that these divisions are by birth only , regardless of the scriptures||

    Ans: I did not claim to be proud. To me the definition of a shudra wud be the descendents of skudra – Turvasu – as Yavanas / non-vedic people. They were designated non-vedic due to idealogical differences and got integrated into the vedic system later (mahabharat times supposedly). The scriptural definition of a shudra is “one in pain” — I am not in pain of any sort. True, the divisions were made fixed by birth due to interpolated texts or to ensure continuity of professions.

    To judge the past based on present day modern sensibilities would be foolish. In the past it might have not been a bad thing to be a Shudra afterall; or they might have most certianly not wanted to be that. All the inter-caste problems that we have on our hands today is thanks to the pre-colonial missionaries.

    Yet, I do not say oppression did not exist. Yes it may have existed. But today technology has taken over. It is foolish to talk about caste in this present day and age.

    ||…justification of being a sudra , as you proved that is indeed very honorable to be a sudra , i.e emerging from mahavishnu’s feet , tell me why do the brahmins not consider themselves to have evolved from the feet?Isn’t it really a nice thing to be a product of this vishnu’s dirty feet?||

    I did not say emerging from the feet of mahavishnu, I said surrendering.

    Yes, brahmanas too had to surrender themselves at the feet of divinity or they cud not hope to unwind the kundalini or expand their consciousness thru the sushumna nadi. It just shows that those that did in the past were accorded the spiritual status or social position of a brahman.

    Idols of Narayana have Him with a finger pointing at his feet. He does not discriminate between a brahmin or a shudra surrendering at His feet.

    || Even now , I am quite sure that you are not a sudra but a brahmin in disguise of sudra.It is not difficult to identify who’s brahmin.You talk like a brahmin.
    Even if you are indeed a sudra , it is better you remain so and surrender all your mentality , rationality , ethics , intelligence (if any) to this mahavishnu , and continue being a slave of the brahmins.||

    Ans: Why shd I pretend to be a brahmin in the guise of a shudra or vice-versa. This is laughable. But since you force me to come out with my so-called social classification — am a naidu.

  56. Shankara said

    @ Fallen Monk – all non-brahmin hindus are unware of their own scriptures and brahmins like shankara fool people with various metaphors and non-sense written in his scriptures.

    Again you are making generalized and baseless statements to cover your ignorance on Hinduism. Hinduism has multitudes of scriptures and reform movements within it. Unlike the Abrahamic religions it does not have a single cannon. Your claim that everything should trace back to the Vedas and that every Hindu holds Vedas as supereme is also not accurate. There are several Hindu denominations like the veera shaivas (followers of the great reformer Basavanna) do not hold vedas as sacred and they are all Hindus. So before you impose your own rules on Hinduism try to understand the religion. That is the reason it is quite obvious that you have no understanding of Hindu religion other than what is written by subaltern writers. Hindus respect different view points and accept that there are many paths to one divine.

    Your claim that Hinduism is not a religion is idiotic? What is your definition of religion? Can you please tell us what makes up a religion and then we can talk. Open any encylopedia of religion (written by the left, right, center, marxists, islamists, christian, imperial, secular ..) and you will find a big section on the Hindu religion. Just because you don’t consider Hinduism as a religion does not make it so. You are free to live in your delusions but don’t expect everyone to buy your nonsense. For example if I don’t consider Einstien as a scientist much less a great scientist the fact will not change that he is one. All you show is a hatred for Hindus and also your abysmal ignorance of Hindu customs and way of life. You are free to hate anyone but don’t expect everyone to believe and comply with your idiocy.

    You simply shout aloud that all other castes consider themselves as slaves of Brahmins. In every post you show how idiotic you are and how little knowledge you have of Hindus and Hinduism. You haven’t been able to provide one proper response to any of my posts. And you are simply repeating the same thing again and again – Hindu and Brahmin bashing without any rhyme or reason.

    For your information we have the greatest of Hindu leaders who were not Brahmins and they have been revered by all the castes. Not just many older sages but most of the Modern and popular hindu leaders like Swami Vivekananda, Aurobindo Ghosh, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Narayan Guru, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Amritanandamayi, Baba Ramdev and many many others are from non brahmin communities. But they are highly revered by most Hindus. All these people are considered by Hindus and even other religious and secular people as the leaders of the Hindu community. Infact Hindus do not think about caste when they talk about their leaders and saints and they look for the essence of their teaching. I am just posting their caste because you are so fixated about it and to prove to you that Hindu leaders and teachings are not just about Brahmins. Brahmins of course have played a great role in Hindu rennaisance but they are not the only Hindu community. You can just go on and on about your tirade on Brahmins and Hindus and your baseless conspiracy theories but they hold no weight.

    Even the main political leaders of the right wing Hindu party like BJP are dominated by non-Brahmins. Advani, Narendra Modi, Rajnath Singh, Uma Bharathi and many many others are not from the brahmin community. And they are considered as Hindu leaders. As I mentioned earlier Castes are basically communities which maintained an occupational identity. The Hindu religion is much bigger than any caste or community and is universal. They are also less parochial than the abrahamic religions.

  57. Kapu said

    Hatred will never be killed by hatred. Learn to respect everyone and every religion. Each has its own truth. I am just amazed how much of discussion has happened because of this post on Aishwarya Rai.

  58. fallen monk said

    @Happyhindu

    So ,you are again inventing new metaphors to justify your point?There is indeed a big difference between vaishnava and the shaivite cults.In fact , there have been many conflicts between the two in the Indian history.Although vaishnavas were usually tolerant towards others , they would turn hostile towards the shaivites , such was the kind of differences between the two.Whereas vishnu has many incarnations like krishna , ram , indra etc , shiva is usually symbolized as a “lingam” (for a very funny reason).In the ling purana , vishnu is beheaded by virabhadra and his head is then blown by wind into fire.In the vaishnava , hari vamsa , vishnu compels shiva to fly after taking him by throat and nearly strangulating.There are many references like these.You can yourself imagine the differences in opinion between the vaishnavas and shaivites.The metaphors that you gave of shiva as mind (whose?) and vishnu as soul (whose?) may be some later interpolations due to influences from some non-vedic or tribal traditions.


    You only prove that hindus are hypocrites.You wrote a long explanation of how being a sudra is not bad , but instead honorable.At least , you should’ve specified what kind of sudra you were talking about.Still , it was clear that you are referring to sudra by birth , as yourself in mind , while writing that long post.

    I am amazed that you rejected atheism , monoism etc for these comical beliefs like the creation of humans from purusha etc.

    A typical hindu , attributing the sins of his ancestors and himself to the britishers and moghuls .

    Then why were you justifying the caste system , by “procing” that being a sudra is not wrong.


    Earlier you said that vishnu is soul.Now who is this mahavishnu?Why (and how) do you surrender yourself to him?Don’t these things
    seems like funny to you?

    No one cares if some narayan doesn’t discriminate between sudra and brahmin.The thing that is important is that hindus are casteists and they do discriminate.

    It doesn’t really matter to me whatever you are , whether “naidu” , “bunt” , “tribal” , “pakistani” or whatever.The truth is that you are a sudra due to your mentality.

  59. Clement said

    Hey Dalitnation your views on Brahmins are so revealing. Can you please do some study if you have not already done that on ‘Brahmins being the Cause of Global Warming’. I am darn sure these brahmins would have played a great part in Global warming.

    Is there any evidence of Brahmins being responsible for extinction of the dinosauros. Again I am darn sure there would be some link. Brahmins would have found the Dinasourous a big threat as Dalit-Bahujans drank dinosouras milk. Evil Brahmins killed the dinosaourus thereby depriving Dalits of their main source of food. I am sure there will be evidence available to prove this. Dalit Nation must please check this and let us know. If you consult V.T. Rajashekar or Kancha Ilaiah they surely would have some scholarly treatise written on this. Please note Jurrasic Park movie was directed by the zionist jew Steven Speilberg. The way Speilberg demonized Dinosaurous is very fishy indeed. The peaceful Dinosaurous which used to give milk to Dalit Bahujans was killed and Brahmins made the cow into a god.
    Am i sounding like Dalit Nation and Dalit Voice. Maybe I should try finding a job with them. Or Should I start work as an intern under Professor Kancha Ilaiah. I have just finished college and studied journalism. I humbly request your scholarly opinion.

  60. fallen monk said

    @ Shankara

    || Hinduism has multitudes of scriptures and reform movements within it. ||

    If Hinduism had been faulty , for which reforms were needed , and still has reform movements , then it only proves that hinduism could still be erroneous and faulty and need reforms.What is the use of following it when you are aware that “Hinduism” has required lots of reformations to survive?What is the certainity that all the faults of ‘hinduism’ have been improved?

    ||So before you impose your own rules on Hinduism try to understand the religion.||
    I have read quite a lot of hindu scriptures and I think I have have more idea about Hinduism than you have.

    || Your claim that Hinduism is not a religion is idiotic? What is your definition of religion? Can you please tell us what makes up a religion and then we can talk. ||
    A religion is a set of homogeneous beliefs based on some basic idea or principle , to understand the mysterious nature and the reason for creation of life etc. Please notice the word homogeneous.A religion is different from another when their “basis” (or foundational beliefs) are different.A religion may have different sects and subsects , but the basis remains the same.How does hinduism fit to this definition?I am sure you yourself know the origin of the terms “hindu” and “hinduism”.”Hindu” is more like a geographical term , and the term hinduism is used as a term to denote the combined set of beliefs existing in India , beside the well founded religions like christianity , islam , Buddhism , Jainism and sikhism.I already mentioned the various contradictory and conflicting beliefs under the term “Hinduism”.The basis of advaita vedanta (non-dualism), which doesn’t even acknowledge a creator , is completely different from the “trimurti” concept of the vedas.Shaivites consider shiva as their highest god whereas vaishnavites consider vishnu the same.Bhakti path has its own gods based on epics and mythology , like ram ,hanuman etc.Moreover , the differences not only exist in beliefs but also in origin and race(caste-system).”Hinduism” is only forcibly chosen as a term to denote one single religion , even though it violates the meaning of the term “religion”.

    || All you show is a hatred for Hindus and also your abysmal ignorance of Hindu customs and way of life. ||

    I have many other things to do in life instead of hating one community just for fun or as a hobby.It is just that I hate people who practice discrimination on the basis of hypocritical caste system.It is not my mistake that all these people happen to belong to “hinduism”.Hindus have ill-treated innocent people for ages and still continue to do so , they are the ones who initiated this hatred , and now you ask why we hate hindus?We are only retaliating in self defence , to live with equality and dignity.If the vedics had been peaceful , rational and moral people , no one would have hated them now , even if they fooled people on the basis of religion.

    || You haven’t been able to provide one proper response to any of my posts. ||
    I had given reply to each statement of yours in a very long post but , somehow , my post has vanished , even though I saw it yesterday.I am in no position to reply to your false knowledge once again.

    || Amritanandamayi, Baba Ramdev and many many others are from non brahmin communities. ||
    Baba ramdev is teaching yoga regardless of any religion , including hinduism.I don’t know about the other.Perhaps , she is only fooling people in the name of religion.

    || Even the main political leaders of the right wing Hindu party like BJP are dominated by non-Brahmins. Advani, Narendra Modi, Rajnath Singh, Uma Bharathi and many many others are not from the brahmin community. ||
    All hindus are ignorant and hypocrites , whether brahmin or otherwise.The brahmins , however , are the initiators of this hypocrisy called Hinduism.

    If I get time , I will reply to your earlier post once again.

  61. fallen monk said

    My reply to Happy hindu has also vanished (or deleted).
    What is the reason , Mr. Dalitnation?

  62. fallen monk said

    I am sure the reason why my posts are being deleted by the blogger is due to my aggression against the shudras also.Most shudras are hindus , after all.They also practice casteism.

  63. fallen monk said

    @ Clement and others like him.

    Please don’t mock yourself by acting immaturely.There is a serious discussion going on here.

  64. happyindianhindu said

    fallenmonk,

    ||There is indeed a big difference between vaishnava and the shaivite cults.In fact , there have been many conflicts between the two in the Indian history.Although vaishnavas were usually tolerant towards others , they would turn hostile towards the shaivites , such was the kind of differences between the two.Whereas vishnu has many incarnations like krishna , ram , indra etc , shiva is usually symbolized as a “lingam” (for a very funny reason).In the ling purana , vishnu is beheaded by virabhadra and his head is then blown by wind into fire.In the vaishnava , hari vamsa , vishnu compels shiva to fly after taking him by throat and nearly strangulating.There are many references like these.You can yourself imagine the differences in opinion between the vaishnavas and shaivites.||

    Ans: Time and again it has been the work of westerners with vested interests to point out that Shaivism and Vaishnavism are diffrent and opposing schools. That Shaivism is native to Indians / Dravidians and Vaishnavism came from outside. Sorry mate, hindus do not buy that. We have to think in terms of very early tribals of which some gave importance to the lingam (the kundala in the mooladhara is has its perceived shape as that of the lingam, earliest references to the lingam are not of the male organ but of this); while others gave importance to the yoni (as mother earth, mother fertility, etc – the man was only considered an intervening medium in causing birth, the woman was everything). So you have a patrilineal culture and a matrilinial culture. Some wrote and classified each other as each deemed right from his / her own point of view. Some talked about pouring lead into the ears of the enemy. Some praised them. In short, they fought and they made love; and they did this over and over again; like all couples do. Centuries later, they had integrated into a family. And even produced children branching off as buddhism, sikhism, etc.

    Then some westereners with vested interests came along and found them living in peace. And decided to highlight only those points from their early texts that had earlier been the causes of rift between them; while ignoring the the other side / the spiritual literature generated by them. To the hindus they were plays of creation and destruction. To the westerners they could be twisted and turned to sow seeds of discord. Now you too are doing the same.

    || You only prove that hindus are hypocrites.You wrote a long explanation of how being a sudra is not bad , but instead honorable.At least , you should’ve specified what kind of sudra you were talking about.Still , it was clear that you are referring to sudra by birth , as yourself in mind , while writing that long post.||

    Ans: Please tell me in what way do you think I was referring to shudra by birth. I never said anything is honorable. Anyone who has purvajanma karma rinam (debts from the past) is reborn. How can anyone’s birth be honourable? We are born from desire, live in desire and die in desire. The idea is to find ways to get rid of the sanchita karma and never be born again.

    || I am amazed that you rejected atheism , monoism etc for these comical beliefs like the creation of humans from purusha etc.||

    Ans: Did i ever say I believe in the creation of humans from purusha? Do you understand Puru-Isha at all? Did I say I rejected atheism and monoism? Please do not put words of your own into my mouth.

    || A typical hindu , attributing the sins of his ancestors and himself to the britishers and moghuls||.

    Ans: What do you mean by Sin? The bible has a very half-baked explanation of it. What is Karma? Who are ‘ancestors’ ? Why are you re-born? Request you to keep the bible aside and turn the pages of the Brahma sutra instead.

    || Then why were you justifying the caste system , by “procing” that being a sudra is not wrong.||

    Did I justify the caste system. None of them — being a brahman, kshatriya, vaishya, shudra — as classes that have existed and will exist are not wrong. Only the people that constituted those classes have always been fluid.

    || Earlier you said that vishnu is soul.Now who is this mahavishnu?Why (and how) do you surrender yourself to him?Don’t these things
    seems like funny to you? ||

    Ans: Please read a bit on the vishishtadvaita school. To surrender to Him means to commit oneself to the pursuit of knowing the self without ego. No it does not seem funny to me.

    || No one cares if some narayan doesn’t discriminate between sudra and brahmin.The thing that is important is that hindus are casteists and they do discriminate.||

    If so, then why are you discriminating?

    || It doesn’t really matter to me whatever you are , whether “naidu” , “bunt” , “tribal” , “pakistani” or whatever.The truth is that you are a sudra due to your mentality.||

    Is that all you have to hurl back? Between atmakhyati and anyatakhyati who are you afterall?

  65. happyindianhindu said

    Fallenmonk,

    || The basis of advaita vedanta (non-dualism), which doesn’t even acknowledge a creator , is completely different from the “trimurti” concept of the vedas.Shaivites consider shiva as their highest god whereas vaishnavites consider vishnu the same.Bhakti path has its own gods based on epics and mythology , like ram ,hanuman etc.Moreover , the differences not only exist in beliefs but also in origin and race(caste-system).”Hinduism” is only forcibly chosen as a term to denote one single religion , even though it violates the meaning of the term “religion”.||

    You wrote this to Shankara. But am tempted to ask you to explain your concept of a creator. Surely you cannot expect to find that ‘connect’ with something outside of you if you do not connect with the spirit within you first.

    If you are a Xtian, perhaps i shd remind you: ‘In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God’ (Genesis 5:1). So, who is God according to you?

    If you are a Buddhist, perhaps i shd also remind you that Buddha during His lifetime never said there is God or there is no God. He spoke in parabels and expected that each human must discover that on their own.

    For those who feel the antaryami, there is indeed no religion. But if one had to define religion in your terms, then yes hindusim is a religion. Please do not attempt to divide Shaivism, Vaishnavism, bhakti path, etc without understanding them first.

  66. Shankara said

    @ Fallen Monk

    Again you are at it again. Hurling baseless accusations on Hinduism.

    If Hinduism had been faulty , for which reforms were needed , and still has reform movements , then it only proves that hinduism could still be erroneous and faulty

    TO give you a brief on the Hindu religion. There are two types of scriptures in Hinduism Shruthi and Smrithi. Shruthis talk of the universal truths and absolutes. Smrithi is more related to the social rules of conduct and other rituals. To make it more clear, Shrutis are similar to the categorical imperetive as defined by Kant and smrithis are like the hypothtical imperetive.Even within Vedas there are elements of Shruthi and Smrithi within the context of a single mandala. Any learned Hindu can tell you that.

    Why does Religion needs reform? Because times change and social values change. You cannot hold on to the value system held thousands of years ago. Hinduism hence provides a context based interpretation of religion and hence Hinduism is also called ‘sanathana dharma’. The rig veda clearly provides the foundation for this from these statements ‘Ekam Sat Vipraha Bahuda Vadanti’ – Truth is one but wise men talk about or approach it through many ways and also in another statement it mentions about absorbing noble thoughts from all sides.

    Your definition of religion is exactly matching the semetic religious doctrines and hence I will bring them here.Semitic religions have their rules cannonized forever. The quran has rules of 7th century arabia cannonized forever and according to islam it should apply to all times and places past, present and future. Same with the Bible. However the hindu traditions beleives in a perrineal individual access to truth and believes in a number of incarnations. Hence Hindu religion is highly inclusive and has even embraced highly restrictive religions like christianity and islam.

    The Bhakti and Sufi movements are a case to ponder on. Just look at the movement of Shiridi Sai Baba and his millions of Hindu adherents. Hindus become no less Hindus by revering a muslim saint and also the Hindu ethos remain intact.

    Now if you don’t think that these are not what Hindus beleive then I am sorry to say you have no knowledge of Hinduism and there is nothing much anyone can tell you more. You can wallow in your own views and opinions. When you critique a religion or a society it is incumbent on you to understand its paradigms, philosophical canon and the sociology. It is clear that you know nothing of these when it comes to Hinduism except parrot some rigid beliefs you hold yourself on this great reiligion. It is also evident that your reading of Hindu religions is confined to only subaltern interpretations of this religion.

    A religion is a set of homogeneous beliefs based on some basic idea or principle , to understand the mysterious nature and the reason for creation of life etc. Please notice the word homogeneous.

    Homogeneous beliefs are a semitic and monotheistic idea perpetuated by Abrahamic religions. Even these religions are not homogenous -Sunnis, Shias, Ahmediyas, Bahais etc in Islam and Catholic and Protestent and mormon and many many others in christianity. And now all of these denominations consider themselves christians and muslims. In Buddhism we have Mahayana, Theravada, Zen (In Zen or Dhyana they even say if you meet the buddha on the road kill him i.e. reverence to Buddha or his cannon is not required) and many others. Basically religion is a body of knowledge and a canon which even contains diverse beliefs which fit into a certain paradigm. Those scholars (and they are the majority) who believe in this definition of religion consider Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Jainism, Buddhism and sikhism as the principal religions ofthe world and among these Islam, Christianity and Judaism fall under the semitic abrahamic paradigm evolved from the core jewish belief system and Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism evolved from the Hindu belief system. That Hindu is a geographical term is incidental and Hindus themselves call their religion by many names Sanatana Dharama or eternal religion is one of them. There are religions like Buddhism and christianity named after their founders. So what about it. That other races cannot come within the ambit of Hinduism is a myth perpetrated in the 18th century by the British. As you can see there are many converts in the west to the Hindu way of living and thought.

    Hindus have ill-treated innocent people for ages and still continue to do so , they are the ones who initiated this hatred , and now you ask why we hate hindus?

    These are baseless generalizations and this has been discussed in detail in other posts. The records of religions like Christianity and Islam on Human Rights abuse as compared to Hinduism is much more because of the inherent rigid Us versus them in these religions. Hinduism with no central organization is ill equipped to do such a sustained ill treatment. Even today India as compared to say Pakistan (not to mention afghanisthan) or say the christian eastern europe is much less in Human rights abuse. Hinduism has no part to play in this. The caste system in India exists as a social stratification cutting across all religions. The tribal and fuedal wars in say the pashtun region or the african tribal wars have no hindu influence. Non violence is a term which stirred the majority of the Hindus to fight the oppression of colonial rule. What matters is your adherence to Humane value systems. All the Hindu movements adhere to these humane value systems. If some of them don’t you won’t have trouble in getting the majority of Hindus to denounce them. Hindus in general have never had such a problem. But again genralizations are wrong and Human beings all over the world have baser instincts. So whether you are Hindu, Christian, Buddhist or an atheist every of these groups had their share of blood in their hands. There is also a solutuon in the Hindu, Jain and Buddhist spiritual tradition for these social evils in the Individual attainmnt of salvation and peace as opposed to the collective salvation deal of abrahamic religions which never work.

    Baba ramdev is teaching yoga regardless of any religion , including hinduism.I don’t know about the other.Perhaps , she is only fooling people in the name of religion.

    You don’t know much about Baba Ramdev or the other Hindu movements but you just want to hazard a guess and again show the extent of your hatred on Hindus and on Amritanadamayi. Even in the legal world a victim is innocent until proven guilty but not in your world of preconceived and ill conceived ideas. Sorry again you show your abysmal ignorance. Just for your education there are six systems of Hindu Philosophies called the Shat Darshanas – Sankhya,, Yoga, Vedanta, Mimamsa, Nyaya and Vaisheshika. Open any good book on Hindu philosophy and you will find this. Yoga is a key part in this. So just don’t show more and more of your ignorance by claiming that yoga is not part of Hinduism. Like most universal truths of the Hindu religion -yoga is now being followed, adopted and propogated by many people in the world who want to lead a healthy, wholesome and peaceful life.

    All hindus are ignorant and hypocrites , whether brahmin or otherwise.The brahmins , however , are the initiators of this hypocrisy called Hinduism
    I don’t think I need to reply to this other than what I have already told – Just shows the extent of your knowledge and generalized hatred on a huge community of 0.8 billion.
    Let me just hazard a guess – where are you from – Pakisthan(?)

  67. happyindianhindu said

    Kancha,

    Where are you? :-) This website is your mouthpiece afterall.

    Just because you are paid to do what you do, I hope you do not refrain from reading this.

    Dalination, make sure your Kancha reads this.

    Bye.

  68. fallen monk said

    Happyhindu,

    || But am tempted to ask you to explain your concept of a creator. ||

    Since I am an atheist , you must be already knowing my answer to this.Personally , I believe in Buddhism (especially the zen sect) and Taoism.These two deserve to be called as ‘eastern religions” , as opposed to western ones (including vedicism).A “Creator” , in the english language , is the initiator of life, of everything that “exists”.And I certainly don’t believe in it.The “Brahman” proposed in Advaita vedanta is not a creator , but a substratum of everything.Unlike , the emptiness in Buddhism , “Brahman” has independent existence with no prior cause for it , instead it is a cause for everything else.I find this concept ridiculous.You can read Nagarjuna’s ( a Buddhist Logician of ancient India) Mulamadhyamakarika for the justification of it.

    To read some more funnier accounts of the creation of this world , like creation from Brahma’s semen , you can refer to some puranas of ‘Hinduism’.

    || For those who feel the antaryami, there is indeed no religion. ||
    These are ornamental words with no meaning.No one has felt any God.All are liars and hypocrites , who claim this.

  69. fallen monk said

    Shankara ,

    Shruthis talk of the universal truths and absolutes. Smrithi is more related to the social rules of conduct and other rituals.

    Smrithi may be concerned with nothing more than social rules and conducts (like Koran , Bible ) , but it certainly has religious origins and I will not hesitate to claim that majority of the Hindus are only concerned about it , rather than shruti , and follow it with complete dedication.
    Your explanation about shruti and smriti is still not anything closer to any “justification” of all the discrimination and oppression that the dalits have faced and are facing.And besides , any non-hindu can imagine how that religion would be from which such horrific social rules and conducts have emerged.

    However the hindu traditions beleives in a perrineal individual access to truth and believes in a number of incarnations.

    Whom does these hindu scriptures entrust the responsibility of modifying with time?Can anybody create rules in Hinduism.If this is so , then ‘Hinduism’ is certainly not a religion , because not only hindus but everyone in the world has the right to select and follow whatever he/she likes.This fundamental right is not exclusive for hindus alone.

    Hence Hindu religion is highly inclusive and has even embraced highly restrictive religions like christianity and islam.
    These concepts of embracing , disposing , modifying etc are only peculiar to hindus.What do you mean by embracing another religion?Every religion , by virtue of being a “religion” , is different from another.How can one embrace the other?You must admit the fact that “Hindu” is a geographical term and “Hinduism” is not one religion but mixture of different religions.The reason why “Hinduism” can embrace every new happening thing in the world so easily is because it has no strong basis or foundation of its own.If it were based on some principle postulates , hypothesis , laws etc , then it would have never embraced something contradictory to its foundations.

    Just look at the movement of Shiridi Sai Baba and his millions of Hindu adherents. Hindus become no less Hindus by revering a muslim saint and also the Hindu ethos remain intact.

    Hindus follow whatever they want to – any god , saint , or even religion.Unfortunately , most hindus just love caste system , because of their greed , and will not easily leave it.

    Even these religions are not homogenous -Sunnis, Shias, Ahmediyas, Bahais etc in Islam and Catholic and Protestent and mormon and many many others in christianity.

    Again you are drifting other religions to justify your own religion.Anyway , even these division or differences between sects of such religion are only surface differences.Their foundation remains the same.Shia and sunni both believe in only one Allah as the Creator and the same prophet.Roman catholics , protestants etc all acknowledge Jesus as their messenger and the son of one and only one God.The differences are only on the surface and not the basis.

    In Buddhism we have Mahayana, Theravada, Zen (In Zen or Dhyana they even say if you meet the buddha on the road kill him i.e. reverence to Buddha or his cannon is not required) and many others.
    Every sect of Buddhism is based on four noble truths and the eightfold path.The philosophy is the same , even if the methods to achieve may be different.In the “Hinduism” , whereas someone believes that everything is a consequence of “Brahman” , the other may be more comfortable pleasing Ram , Sita , Ravan etc , yet someone else likes doing useless rituals , havans etc.No correlations at all.Only with the contact of Islam and Christianity with Hinduism did hindus really begin describing hinduism as a monotheistic religon by inventing some new metaphors or selecting one particular religion of “Hinduism” , of course being inspired by these abrahamic religions.

    Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism evolved from the Hindu belief system.

    Jainism is far older than “Hinduism”.And Buddhism is not based on any vedas , as Buddha Gautama never read them.Only a fool would say that a philosophy like Buddhism is based on the rituals of Hinduism (vedas of those times).While Buddha was on his way to find the end of suffering he had trained with two Jain monks – Alara Kalama
    and Udakka ramaputta.Later , he separated from them also and began on his own path.In fact , I would say that most of the present-day Hinduism is a product of Buddhism and Jainism.The concept of Karma , reincarnation , Advaita Vedanta , vegetarianism etc were all a result of competetion of Brahmanism with Buddhism and Jainism.Your own shankara has also criticized and debunked Buddha intensively in his various texts.How can these religions be called as the consequence of “Hindu” (Brahminic) doctrine.
    In fact , I would say that “Hinduism” began with the Indian Independence , with the first ever definitions of “Hinduism” and “Hindu” documented in the constitution.

    The records of religions like Christianity and Islam on Human Rights abuse as compared to Hinduism is much more because of the inherent rigid Us versus them in these religions.

    At least these religions have unity among its own followers , or at least unity and brotherhood among its followers is gauranteed by the scriptures , which is an attribute of all religions , unlike hinduism (if it can be called one) , where the scriptures (whether smriti or shruti) themselves appreciate the division and oppression of people.

    The caste system in India exists as a social stratification cutting across all religions.
    Would all the hindus agree to call me a “Brahmin” if I agree to read the vedas (although I would select death if it was my only other option rather than this)?Here lies the true hypocrisy of the hindus.

    Just for your education there are six systems of Hindu Philosophies called the Shat Darshanas – Sankhya,, Yoga, Vedanta, Mimamsa, Nyaya and Vaisheshika.

    Just for your education these schools do not come under the term “Hindu philosophies” so much as it comes under “Indian philosophies”.
    Anything that is not in accordance with the vedas or goes against them is not “Hindu” , as is Brahmins themselves consider vedas as the most authoritative.

  70. Shankara said

    Your explanation about shruti and smriti is still not anything closer to any “justification” of all the discrimination and oppression that the dalits have faced and are facing.

    As I have already mentioned the caste system and oppression from the upper caste to the lower caste had nothing to do with Vedas or latter hindu scriptures and was an unfortunate social development in a feudal soceity. Just to provide a perspective for an objective socilogical perspective this kind of exploitation existed and is still existing in most feudal soceities and we find that in India as well in many other countries especially in the
    developing and the under developed world. I am by no means condoning the caste system or the oppression and violence against anyone. I have lived in a village in India for the first few years of my life and observed the
    operation of the oppression of a poor community by a powerful landed and rich community. From a child’s unbiased and non political view I could clearly see this as a class divide and there were no religious or caste elements involved in any of these things. I have studied in traditional Hindu schools and also in the best of secular universties. In none of these including the traditional Hindu gurukul there was any element of hatred
    taught against any community or religion. So when you appropriate a characterstic or behaviour against someone and a large group of people whom I have interacted closely you should have sufficient proof and evidence. It
    is quite clear to me that your fixated and constant hatred towards a community is probably a result of identifying yourself to a subaltern cause whose prime motive and aim is to demonize hinduism without much reason. For
    a professed rationalist, Buddhist / taoist I find your angered demenour and victim conciousness amusing.

    Whom does these hindu scriptures entrust the responsibility of modifying with time?Can anybody create rules in Hinduism.If this is so , then ‘Hinduism’ is certainly not a religion , because not only hindus but
    everyone in the world has the right to select and follow whatever he/she likes.This fundamental right is not exclusive for hindus alone”

    Those rules which basically align with the categorical statements of the shruthis are valid rules according to some of the Brahmana tradition but this has been debunked and disqualified over the ages using the shrutis themselves. And most other traditions both within and outside the brahmin tradition have formed their rules based upon the teachings of the rishis and liberated people. The hindu tradition has evidenced a tradition of saints, avatars and teachers who provide the rules / practices based on their experience of cosmic spiritual conciousness. Now you can disbeleive these experiences but again you would need to understand that the same tradition is present in all the Hindu sects in different guises. That is one reason all these traditions fall under one single category. We (Hindus) call it Sanatana Dharma or Hinduism. Since the word Hindu is so allergic to you, you can claim this as whatever you like. The path of Yoga (this is essentially Hindu – I will come to that later in another post) has provided a technology and description of acheiving this state of cosmic conciousness, Moksha, Nirvana etc.

    Again who sets the basic rules in other religions. It is set by a set of prophets (Rishis)like Buddha in the case of Buddhism, Muhammad in Islam and Jesus (or rather paul, mathew, mark, luke and john) in case of christianity.
    But in case of Hinduism the rigidity to accept and identify solely one set of saints or pophets is absent. This is evident even in the most earlier times when there was a plethora of rishis who contributed to the ever
    growing Hindu cannon of thought. Hence it is highly inclusive and less restrictive.

    Again you are drifting other religions to justify your own religion.Anyway , even these division or differences between sects of such religion are only surface differences.Their foundation remains the same.Shia
    and sunni both believe in only one Allah as the Creator and the same prophet

    Again these are your own subjective opinions. Ask a sunni whether a Bhai is a muslim or not. He will surely say he / she isn’t. It is not just a surface difference according to them.

    Every sect of Buddhism is based on four noble truths and the eightfold path.

    Again you are wrong. The zen sect of rinzai and the instant enlightenment schools have rejected the noble eightfold path as meaningless. Some schools of Zen provides for a present moment, context based non canonical path towards enlightenment. But they are buddhism nevertheless. Even some modern versions of Buddhism have broken away from the original (meaning the teachings in the tripitaka) meanings of karma, sunyata etc. Bhikku Buddadasa (Also called the communist Bhikku) of thailand interpreted buddhism through the lens of Marxism, Ambedkar interpreted Buddhism through the lens of the pragmatic philosophy of his mentor the philosopher John Dewey and ‘his Buddha and his Dharma’ finds no acceptance among majority of the buddhist circles other than a sympatheic acceptance for a Humanitarian cause and also the new converts add to their numbers. Several western buddhists have equated Budhhism to a reductionistic materialistic philosophy completely ignoring the metaphysical and teach buddhism as a sort of religious emiricipsm.But all these are now considered as paths of Buddhism. The same accusations you make on Hinduism I can level on Buddhism as well. Anand Coomarswamy the famus sri lankan and irish scholar on buddhism even remarked in early 1900s that ‘Buddhism is most famous today for everything it originally never taught’.

    But I can well understand the similarities between the hindu and buddhist traditions which you fail to see due to your political alignment. Also Buddhism has its share of superstitions and myths. I don’t want to go into
    all that. Even taoism has so many ridioulous superstitions and myths. It is a different fact if you confine it to a set of texts you yourself choose. In fact all the things you accuse to Hinduism can be accused to the Taoist
    and Buddhist tradition as well. The taoist tradition has a whole lot of creation myths equally absurd (the myth of pagu and many many others). Even the stories of Buddhas birth have many absurd ‘non-rational’ elements. You can selectively choose whatever you want to blieve from these traditions. And again who makes the rules?

    I will reply to the rest of your post after the weekend.

  71. cool said

    || Since I am an atheist , you must be already knowing my answer to this.Personally , I believe in Buddhism (especially the zen sect) and Taoism.These two deserve to be called as ‘eastern religions” , as opposed to western ones (including vedicism).A “Creator” , in the english language , is the initiator of life, of everything that “exists”.And I certainly don’t believe in it.The “Brahman” proposed in Advaita vedanta is not a creator , but a substratum of everything.Unlike , the emptiness in Buddhism , “Brahman” has independent existence with no prior cause for it , instead it is a cause for everything else.I find this concept ridiculous.You can read Nagarjuna’s ( a Buddhist Logician of ancient India) Mulamadhyamakarika for the justification of it.||

    Sure mate, I shall get a copy of the Mulamadhyamakarika translation and read it. Lets not talk abt what deserves to be called what. The mind is fluid eevrywhere, categorization serves no objective purpose.

    You talk of atheism as the lack of a creator when in reality it overlaps with agnosticism. This ‘divide’ of accepting a creator or the lack of one is ancient — not from or restricted to buddhism — is very much a Sanaatan philosophy. Yes, the advaitha brahman is not a creator – the concept can be rather agnostic – and wud depend on how you wud see a ‘creator’.

    The ‘substratum of everything’ as you speak is ‘energy’ – rather kundalini enerygy – or the enerygy that keeps us ‘alive’. The physical conscious world is the product of karmic energy or emotional energy, of every thought that we think. You wud wonder what is this karmic / emotional enerygy that lights up our thoughts and ‘decides’ germ thoughts in the para of the prana? Often when you sit to collect those parinamas (transformations / results) that cause vrittis (thoughts), you wud start ‘travelling’ (read understanding) to where it came from. Sometimes you travel very far back and very long (a few hours everyday over months). Many times you do not reach the source, yet you feel peace (though its the journey that caused it not the destination, its a feeling of having ‘spent’ away energy and a strange peace that comes with it). Many other times, you do reach the source (not sure if can actually call it a ‘source’). In a lightening flash you seem to understand why you think, the way you think. You wud end up separating your I from the self simply to view / understand / comprehend that. Once the ‘awareness’ of the thought happens, it slowly seems to fade away, the ‘thought’ simply ceases to exist. Why? I do not know. The vrittis just does not exist anymore. The mind becomes blank and there is a sense of peace. Am not able to define this peace – its hard to come ‘back’ or out of it. There is this ‘awareness’ of ‘wanting’ to ‘go’ somewhere. Call me a liar / hypocrite / schizophrenic my friend, you are free to laugh at me. Am not sure if i shd feel ashamed abt anything. Am still handling my unintelligent ego in the external physical conscious world (again, i may want to remind you that ego is not restricted to ppl of a certain community only, its everywhere, so y target 1 group?).

    Since you talk of the ‘creator’ not ‘existing’ and of professing the zen philosophy, let me propose a simple situation to you (the rationalist):
    Say you took a decision after a lot of planning and strategizing. You used logic to eliminate all the situations that might cause impediments to your plan. But you do not know kala (time) or tomorrow (you might even be dead), yet you eliminated those situations in good faith; hoping the end result would be as per your expectations. So, it is in good faith that you exercised your logic. MEaning, it is logical to use faith. Can you rationalize logic? What makes you so sure you won’t be dead tomorrow? Faith is logical my friend.

    The buddhist nyaya’s core concept is the (justification of the) lack of a creator – the ideology is that the creation is the created and vice-versa; since both exist and support one another, there is no room for a seperate ‘creator’. This has been spoken of extensively in adi shankara’s brahmasutra bhasya (am told ramanuja’s work is more intriguing). The questions i loved most in it were those based on ‘evolution’: of how can the inert pradhana / prakriti have the sense or the will to design / create. If there is no perpetual evolution / dissolution, then there is an ‘intelligent purpose’ / a particular “management system” controlling it. The Vaisheshika school traces the entire world to primary atoms, posits and clearly expounds the adrishta or the unseen power responsible for bringing them together or seperating them. This is a topic I love knowing, and its beyond the present pages to talk abt here.

    All I can say that if you say there is no creator, please prove it to me there is no creator. Similarly i cannot prove to you that a creator exists. If anything cannot be proven or disproven, it is at best sought to be learnt; not to reject. For there is no object to such a subject; neither can we presume there will ever be.

    True brahman is the cause for everything, sarvam kalvidham brahma. If there is no ‘perception” of the effective cause of the brain – the mind, then there is nothing left to perceive. In such a case, we wudn’t be talking here.

    Its funny we ended up talking abt this, when in reality we are talking abt my “Shudra mentality” :-) fyi, the one that penned the brahmasutra was a shudra — Badrayana or Vedvyas (believed to be an avatara of Vishnu’s cognitive energy). Honestly I do not know why there is so much derogatory-ness associated with being a shudra. If that is my caste / social classification, so be it. I have absolutely no prob with it and wonder why it should trouble you / any1 in anyway. Am not capable of the difficult and suffocating lifestyle of a priest, nor do i have the inclination to fight like a warrior and am a complete zero as a trader or with money. So, what does that make me?

  72. fallen monk said

    Mr. Cool ,

    But you do not know kala (time) or tomorrow (you might even be dead), yet you eliminated those situations in good faith; hoping the end result would be as per your expectations. So, it is in good faith that you exercised your logic. MEaning, it is logical to use faith.

    The reason that I eliminated these situations is not because I have a faith or “expectation” of some atmosphere wherein I might reach my objective.I will tell you the true logic behind my eliminating of those situations : I see that there are two possibilities if I work towards an objective – either it will happen or not.It can’t be both at the same time.There are two further possibilities now ; either I work towards the goal or I drop it because it might happen to be a failure.Now I reason that If I choose the latter , and suppose my “obstructions” would have even arisen ,then I would lose my objective for nothing.If I chose the former , and eliminate the situations that may interfere in my goal , and If I am still unable reach it I will still lose nothing , whereas If its successful I would achieve the goal.
    In other words , it is not the faith of being in a good position that leads me to work towards my objective , but the possibility of achieving it rather than completely avoiding it and losing what I could’ve gained.

    Faith is a different thing and logic is another.Yet both cannot be separated.I base my logic on “facts” (I can’t operate logic on nothing) and the belief in these facts arises from faith.However , it would be completely wrong to say that Faith is logical.
    Perhaps you , as a hindu , have that kind of logical approach – faith.But this is quite minimum as a Buddhist or a Taoist or a Sufi.

    again, i may want to remind you that ego is not restricted to ppl of a certain community only, its everywhere, so y target 1 group?

    The scriptures create conditions for caste hindus to fall in this pitfall of ego , unlike the case of dalits and tribals.Human greed , hatred etc arises from this ego only and is very difficult to control.Brahmins are more likely to have these qualities because the religion approves them of being “purer” , “twice-born” etc.And therefore , the dalits and tribals will always fight such hindus to end the tyranny.

    I won’t comment on your second para as I agree with most of it , and also because it is not related to the theme of discussion.

    All I can say that if you say there is no creator, please prove it to me there is no creator.
    This I will attempt to reply.
    “Creation” is a deceiving word , as it is merely the process of transforming from one form to another.Nothing gets created out of nothing.There are two questions that arise if we assume that world is created by a created:-
    1. From what is the “creation” created.
    2. Creator surely exists .Who created the creator?

    It is not the absurdness of the concept of a Creator that leads me to not believe in it , but rather , the unnecessity , more so , to believe in it.When there is no use acknowledging a creator then why bother about it?

    True brahman is the cause for everything, sarvam kalvidham brahma.

    It is a completely rubbish concept created by Shankara by twisting Buddhism and the Upanishads.

    Honestly I do not know why there is so much derogatory-ness associated with being a shudra.

    Honestly I do not even know why there is a need to attach new nomenclature (like shudra) to people , worse so , based on the accident of birth.Most of the shudras are happy being shudras , be it.No one can oppose them if they like these terms , even being aware that it has a social rank attached to it by religion.

    Those who want to live a life of freedom and dignity will surely lose such useless terms stamped on them by some idiots.

  73. cool said

    so posting under happyhindu is blocked??

    dalitnation, i am as much you as you are me. y block me?

    targetting hindusim or brahmins wont solve your probs.

    instead you may want to target ppl like me – for as long ppl like me continues to profess hindusim in any form including a definitve mix of atheism and theism; or like my dad atheism alone as according to him (& probably like u), he has ‘not seen god’, then brahmins and brahminism will exist.

    the real prob lies with the rouges you call politicians. and the biggest prob lies with the ones that pay them to continue the divide and rule legacy.

  74. Saju Carlos said

    Buddhism a false religion as Hinduism. They are cult of satan. Buddha is also false prophet and has no answers for sufferings of peoples. The teaching is all meditation and other satanic activity. Buddha teaches emptying of mind which is easy entry for satan control. emptying mind is a satan mind. Buddha is not save the dalits. Buddha also abandoned wife and children. He teach individual salvation like the hindus and naked sadus and jains. only saviour of sin is Jesus christ. Can Buddha save you from the sins. Because salvation is only happens through Jesus. = only way dalits can be saved is through Jesus. It is through the Bible the darkness of india can be removed. don’t go back to the india of past of buddha and brahmins. Dalits should convert to Christianity and gain salvation both social and spiritual – because jesus is spirt and lord. Kingdom of god is teached by jesus only. Buddha only teached rebirth and you will come as a pig in your next life and also cockroach. which is nonsense and a work of satan. it is the kingdom of god dalits should reach. Jesus loves all. All hindu and buddhist in dark ages in india.

  75. Sajor Carlos: Fantastic. I have been waiting for a rabid Christian fanatic like you to blabber your rubbish so that i can ask you some sensible questions for which you can provide straightforward, direct, honest and sensible answers.

    If the bible is the word of so called god and if god is a ocean of mercy then why is god so immoral and cruel with his creations as per your bible? I’m not trying to justify hinduism or islam, they are more or less equally evil too as like any religion but from a humanitarian point of view being an atheist and a free thinker i ask why is your bible god so blood thirsty a bitch?

    I know you have no clue because you know nothing about the bible. Let me explain what i mean…

    “Genesis 6:5-8 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

    Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.”

    So what does this imply here. God is not perfect. He created an imperfect human as per his own words. Why? Because if he was perfect he would have created a perfect man who would be so perfect that man would not have disobeyed god in the first place!

    Second Kings 2:23-24 And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

    Wow, he kills 40 odd children, INNOCENT children because they called him a bald head ??/ What the hell!

    Numbers 31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

    Numbers 31:14-18 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

    The Bible claims they killed all the men, all the boys and all the non-virgin females in the name of their god. The remaining women were kept “for themselves”. It’s left to the imagination as to what that means but most likely they were raped as sex-slaves after witnessing their loved ones and family put to the sword.

    Also kindly explain all of these “Holy Words of the Book of God” “THE BIBLE”…

    The genocide of the Amalekites (Ex 17:13)
    The genocide of the Canaanites (Num 21:3)
    The genocide of the Bashanites (Num 21:35)
    Yahweh personally slaughters the Zamzummims and the Horims (Deut 2:21-22)
    The genocide of the Heshbonites (Deut 2:34)
    The genocide of the Bashanites (Deut 3:6) (Again? How many times can a kingdom be utterly destroyed?)
    Yahweh orders the genocide of the Amalekites (Deut 25:19) (again?)
    The merciless bloodbath upon taking the city of Jericho (Josh 6:21)
    The slaughter of the entire city of Ai (Josh 8:22-26)
    Clever thinking by the Gibeonites allows them to be spared but they will live as slaves (Josh 9:23)
    The slaughter of the Amorites (Josh 10:10-13)
    The genocide of seven different kingdoms (Josh 10:28-40)
    The genocide of the Hazorites (Josh 11:11)
    The genocide of the Anakims (Josh 11:21)
    Genocide of the Caananites (again?) and Perizzites (Judges 1:5)
    Massacre at Jerusalem (Judges 1:8)
    More massacres at Zephath (Judges 1:17)
    Massacre at Bathel (Judges 1:25)
    The men of the city of Succoth are put to the sword (Judges 8:17)
    Yahweh personally smote the people of Sihon (Judges 11:21)
    Genocide against the Ammonites (Judges 11:33)
    Samson kills himself to destroy a Philistine city (Judges 16:30)
    The “quiet and unsuspecting” people of Laish are massacred (Judges 18)
    The capture, rape and sex slavery of the young female virgins of Jabesh-Gilead (all other citizens are slaughtered). When there aren’t enough young virgins to go around, more women are captured from Shiloh (Judges 21).
    Saul slaughters more Ammonites (1st Sam 11:11)
    Saul mercilessly slaughters Philistines (1st Sam 14:36)
    Genocide against the Amalekites except the king and the sheep (1st Sam 15:7-8)
    Yahweh is angry that Saul showed mercy on the king and the sheep (1st Sam 15:18-19)
    David beats Saul in a killing contest (1st Sam 18:6-7)
    David slaughters more Amalekites (1st Sam 30:17). This is the third time in the Bible they’ve been massacred. Apparently, there are more of them every summer.
    David kills two thirds of the Moabites and enslaves the survivors. (2nd Sam 8:2)
    David gruesomely hacks to death the inhabitants of the cities of the children of Ammon. (2nd Sam 12:31)
    Amaziah slaughters 10,000 Edomites (2nd Kings 14:7)
    Slaughter in Tirzah, including pregnant women being graphically “ripped up” (2nd Kings 15:16)
    The Ethiopian cities around Gerar are massacred after Yahweh destroys their armies. (2nd Chron 14:14)
    When Yahweh gets angry at his own people, he sends the Chaldeans to mercilessly slaughter even the young and those stooped with age. (2nd Chron 36:17).

    Also the Bible god likes to kill disobedient children…

    Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; …And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

    This is only starters… I will post 10 times this amount when you answer my questions. You may now spend you dollars answering my questions instead of converting innocent poor dalits.

  76. Peppi Mint said

    Guys Guys Guys Hold your horses. This blog is discussing aishwarya rai and how she has been exploited – thats what this joker who wrote it claims. Now you people just jump in and talk of all kinds of things like hinduism, buddhism and vedas and all that. Guys get a life. AIshwarya rai is nice cute girl who every guy wanted to lay hands on. And now this fellow dalit nation has been fantasizing about her for many years. Now she gets married and he goes ballistic and talks of conspiracy theory. Look aishwarya is finished now. She is not hot anymore. No bollywood herione is hot after marriage. get it straight guys. Talk about deepika padukone instead. She is getting laid by yuvraj singh.

    • Girish said

      Hey Peppe Puttar,
      You are the only sensible guy here. Its amazing how you get to the bottom of the matter. I have read your other comments also. Cool. Keep up your good work. You bring fresh perspective.

  77. happyindianhindu said

    Fallenmonk,

    || The reason that I eliminated these situations is not because I have a faith or “expectation” of some atmosphere wherein I might reach my objective.I will tell you the true logic behind my eliminating of those situations : I see that there are two possibilities if I work towards an objective – either it will happen or not.It can’t be both at the same time.There are two further possibilities now ; either I work towards the goal or I drop it because it might happen to be a failure.Now I reason that If I choose the latter , and suppose my “obstructions” would have even arisen ,then I would lose my objective for nothing.If I chose the former , and eliminate the situations that may interfere in my goal , and If I am still unable reach it I will still lose nothing , whereas If its successful I would achieve the goal.
    In other words , it is not the faith of being in a good position that leads me to work towards my objective , but the possibility of achieving it rather than completely avoiding it and losing what I could’ve gained.||

    In other words, you are exercizing free-will and working hard to make a success out of your decision irrespective of what the fruits of your (hard) work may be. Meaning, you are following the path of nishphal karma (doing your karma without expectations) (this is what Krishna says in the bhagvad gita). But anyways, what do you think brought you to that point of free-will? What do you think caused the “event” that resulted in your being able to exercize free-will to work on it?

    || Faith is a different thing and logic is another.Yet both cannot be separated.I base my logic on “facts” (I can’t operate logic on nothing) and the belief in these facts arises from faith.However , it would be completely wrong to say that Faith is logical. Perhaps you , as a hindu , have that kind of logical approach – faith.But this is quite minimum as a Buddhist or a Taoist or a Sufi.||

    So you accept that faith and logic, though different, cannot be seperated. Yet you say it is “wrong” to say faith is logical. On what basis? Have you explored your sense of perception to various events in your life to see where there have been perceptual errors? Do you think you can or have ‘learnt’ from it? What would be ‘minimum’ as faith in your dictionary / mind?

    || The scriptures create conditions for caste hindus to fall in this pitfall of ego , unlike the case of dalits and tribals.Human greed , hatred etc arises from this ego only and is very difficult to control.Brahmins are more likely to have these qualities because the religion approves them of being “purer” , “twice-born” etc.And therefore , the dalits and tribals will always fight such hindus to end the tyranny.||

    The scriptures do not create conditions, they “point out” conditions that make / had made / can make any human fall into the pitfall of ego. Are you saying “human qualities” such as greed and hatered is restricted to the brahmins alone? I too have the ability for hatered and greed in me. And I am not a brahmin. Have you examined yourself carefully??

    Lets say you remove all so-called upper caste ppl. And made a world of dalits alone. Do you think greed will be removed?

    || “Creation” is a deceiving word , as it is merely the process of transforming from one form to another.Nothing gets created out of nothing.There are two questions that arise if we assume that world is created by a created:-
    1. From what is the “creation” created.
    2. Creator surely exists .Who created the creator?||

    What caused this transformation? The words you use “nothing gets created out of nothing” are ancient indeed. Try any upanishad, you will find purnamidham purnamadham purnarthpoornamudachyathe, poornasyapoorna madaya poornameva ashishyate. This is infinity, that is infinity, from infinity is born infinity, if you remove infinity from infinity, infinity still remains. So tell me, what is the nature of infnity? If you say creation is merely transformation, you must be able to explain the nature this transformation.

    Ofcourse energy is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed. The creator too is neither created not destroyed, only transformed. The creator (to me) is a higher energy, a higher force, an “intelligent” designer, the causative effective and the effective cause for everyting. I may see Him or It as Narayana, as Shiva, Brahma, Parvati, Lakshmi, Ganesha, as all attributes of the same divine. Just as I wud feel content in the presence of Baba (Sai), Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, monks from the Ramakrishna Mission, Shivananda Ashram and so on…for all of them to me represent the same divine force in absolutes or relatives.

    || It is not the absurdness of the concept of a Creator that leads me to not believe in it , but rather , the unnecessity , more so , to believe in it.When there is no use acknowledging a creator then why bother about it?||

    So the concept of a creator is un-necessary? Have you tried to understand, how and why did your mind cause it to feel un-necessary? Acknowledging a creator seems to happen naturally to some; and yes they too do not bother about it, for it is an extremely private thing. On what basis do you think such a personal affair should become part of politics, part of a public domain?

    || It is a completely rubbish concept created by Shankara by twisting Buddhism and the Upanishads.||

    Before Shankara, millions of souls that sought felt it. No concept belongs to one person alone. Vaani (sound energy) at the madhyama level (emotional level) is the same for all; only at the Vaikhari (spoken) level it gets expressed in the differentiated form. If you air is air, you are right. If you air (or ayer) is water, you are right too. There are no rights and wrongs in bhava (that what is felt). Some express it, some don’t. It doesn’t mean it is not felt.

    || Honestly I do not even know why there is a need to attach new nomenclature (like shudra) to people , worse so , based on the accident of birth.Most of the shudras are happy being shudras , be it.No one can oppose them if they like these terms , even being aware that it has a social rank attached to it by religion.

    Those who want to live a life of freedom and dignity will surely lose such useless terms stamped on them by some idiots.||

    If it is difference of ideology and religion you want to talk about, its fine with me. If you want to attack any community as means to further your ideology, its not fine with me. Lets leave the communities alone, and talk about the idealogies. Brahmins are not the cause for casteism, they are as much a product of casteism as you and me are.

    Its the system, that needs reform and change. Like ‘neo-Judaism’ came to represent all points of that cannot be carried into the next century (many jews were converting), hindusim too needs reform and change. But is there a ‘body’ like an ecumenical council that decides these things? Someday it might become a necessity and it will happen. However, I hope you understand as a bottomline — it is pointless attacking the religion.

    Perhaps Shudra should then be re-defined as not a social class but a spiritual class — anyone who feels like a dasa / dasi in search of the providence of divinity, qualifies to be a shudra (i wud qualify i think :-) ).

  78. happyindianhindu said

    Fallenmonk,

    Kancha often says brahmins must share temple wealth with us dalits, must let us become priests and so on.

    I want you to examine the following questions carefully. Since hopefully many dalits will also be reading this, hence these questions:

    1) Are you capable of a strict disciplined life? Get up early in the morning every single day? Commit to a life centred around several rituals and practices?

    2) Can you live without good food (read: meat), some booze, and avoid those nightly soujourns as and when needed? As a teenager, can you avoid a few flings (get wht i mean)?

    3) Are you willing to commit to learning large volumes of data? Of having unwavering focus in it? Living a life with ‘limited’ entertainment?

    If I cannot be like that, how wud you think I can raise my kids like that? The family atmosphere how a kid is raised certainly counts i suppose (sure lotus flowers in dirty water, but as regular temple priets?).

    Honestly mate, its easier being a monk than a brahman.

  79. Kripal said

    I think you guys are just wasting time discussing about Hinduism here.Hinduism is the greatest and oldest religion in the world. It has survived the onsloughts of so many invaders and barbarians. Do you think these dalit nations and dalit voice and these jokers can do any harm to hinduism. Everyone knows where their funding comes from and what they actually stand for. Like barking dogs these people bark at hinduism.

  80. Saucer said

    I think the only intellegent guy here is Clement. He has asked the right questions. Dalit nation and its mentors Kancha Ilaiah and V.T.Rajashekar should answer those questions and write articles on how Brahmins killed dinasourous and made the cow the national animal. We dalits need to know the truth about this.
    Again, coming to the latest Bird flu epidemic, is there any link with Brahmins and the the Bird Flu. Please dalit nation let us know.

  81. happyhindu said

    Saucer,

    You kill an enemy by making a friend out of him.

    For dalits, their needs are real. They live in the real world (of dirt and pain). But their attention and abilities have been harnessed elsewhere by exploiters.

    These are ppl who genuinely believe the cause for their suffering is the hindu caste system. Its pointless to criticize them. If they write useless articles to seek attention, it doesn’t mean you write useless stuff as well.

    An eye for an eye turns the whole world blind.

  82. fallen monk said

    HappyHindu ,

    First I will answer the second post of yours.

    Are you capable of a strict disciplined life? Get up early in the morning every single day? Commit to a life centred around several rituals and practices?

    Leave aside the rituals and scriptures (and any other non-sense related to it) , observe a dalit mazdoor one day.His/her sleep is far less than a brahmin and he/she is far more hardworking and disciplined.Of course , poverty , discrimination and oppression develops in them some very bad habits of drinking , smoking etc.Rituals and such practices are useless , and the main reason for the mentality of a brahmin.

    Can you live without good food (read: meat), some booze, and avoid those nightly soujourns as and when needed? As a teenager, can you avoid a few flings (get wht i mean)?

    Anyone with good determination can.
    Do you really think that brahmins never eat good food , booze , or have sex?I know several brahmins who drink , smoke and are also drug addicts (in some cases).Many eat meat , through the excuse of sacrifice in many northern and eastern regions.Read newspapers daily and you will find many brahmins being convicted for murder , rape etc.A few weeks back I read a newspaper article of how a brahmin mother and daughter duo (mother was a lawyer and daughter was a student of medicine) first kidnapped a daughter and then murdered him in a very horrific manner.I have seen many brahmins (i recognize because of their pony tail) scolding the labourers with so much hatred and anger , and it shows how much they care about religion and spirituality.Just performing some useless scriptures everyday doesn’t mean discipline.
    Come out of ignorance that brahmins are really very disciplined , humble , honest and wise human beings.As far as I have seen most brahmins are just normal human beings , with nothing extraordinary except superiority complex.

    Are you willing to commit to learning large volumes of data? Of having unwavering focus in it? Living a life with ‘limited’ entertainment?

    Learning large volumes of data?Are trying to point to the scriptures?Well , in that case I should remind you that most brahmins have left their scriptures and rituals , as they are useless to live a comfortable life with.Limited entertainment?Most brahmins , like this Amitabh Bacchan , Madhuri Dixit etc , are , in fact , a source of entertainment , and themselves live with complete comfort and luxury.

    Honestly mate, its easier being a monk than a brahman.

    You cunningly changed the word “brahmin” which you began your post with , with “brahman” , and I know what will your next reply be of mine.You will counter by saying that you were referring to brahmin by deeds (rather than birth).I would advice you , in that case , you don’t reply at all.It would save your time as well as effort.Hearing utopian concepts of “brahmin-by-birth” again and again is quite irritating , when everyone knows that you are honestly defending brahmins-by-birth only.You yourself know this , ask your conscience how desperately you are trying to defend the brahmins by trying to invent logic , along with your ornamental words.
    I am sure you are a brahmin.Only a brahmin uses such cowardice tactics.

  83. fallen monk said

    Happyhindu,

    Are you saying “human qualities” such as greed and hatered is restricted to the brahmins alone?

    No , I never said that.Read my post again.All I said was that the scriptures , which gives the brahmins the titles like “twice-born’ , “purer” etc , make them more vulnerable to become greedy and oppressive.And this is also the reason why I am attacking the source , i.e the scriptures , rather than the brahmins themselves.Just because greed is everywhere doesn’t mean that we should ignore it.We must find a remedy against it , and this is what I am doing.

    Brahmins are not the cause for casteism, they are as much a product of casteism as you and me are.

    Please explain how they are not the cause for casteism.And also , who is the cause of casteism?
    First of all , your statement is itself paradoxical.You make reference to a caste (brahmins) who are supposed to be above everyone else in hierarchy , and then claim that they didn’t create the caste-system.Who started calling them brahmins then?If they are a product of casteism then someone might have surely invented this system.And who else could it be except the ones who claimed to be the highest (if the scriptural evidence is to be ignored)?

    Perhaps Shudra should then be re-defined as not a social class but a spiritual class
    At least you admit that it is social class and not a spiritual class , as you were trying to justify in one of your earlier posts , even though you won’t admit its origins as the scriptures themselves.

  84. happyhindu said

    || Leave aside the rituals and scriptures (and any other non-sense related to it) , observe a dalit mazdoor one day.His/her sleep is far less than a brahmin and he/she is far more hardworking and disciplined.Of course , poverty , discrimination and oppression develops in them some very bad habits of drinking , smoking etc.Rituals and such practices are useless , and the main reason for the mentality of a brahmin.

    Anyone with good determination can. Do you really think that brahmins never eat good food , booze , or have sex?I know several brahmins who drink , smoke and are also drug addicts (in some cases).Many eat meat , through the excuse of sacrifice in many northern and eastern regions.Read newspapers daily and you will find many brahmins being convicted for murder , rape etc.A few weeks back I read a newspaper article of how a brahmin mother and daughter duo (mother was a lawyer and daughter was a student of medicine) first kidnapped a daughter and then murdered him in a very horrific manner.I have seen many brahmins (i recognize because of their pony tail) scolding the labourers with so much hatred and anger , and it shows how much they care about religion and spirituality.Just performing some useless scriptures everyday doesn’t mean discipline.
    Come out of ignorance that brahmins are really very disciplined , humble , honest and wise human beings.As far as I have seen most brahmins are just normal human beings , with nothing extraordinary except superiority complex.

    Learning large volumes of data?Are trying to point to the scriptures?Well , in that case I should remind you that most brahmins have left their scriptures and rituals , as they are useless to live a comfortable life with.Limited entertainment?Most brahmins , like this Amitabh Bacchan , Madhuri Dixit etc , are , in fact , a source of entertainment , and themselves live with complete comfort and luxury.||

    I was referreing to the lifestyle of brahmin priests in the temples. Not to everyday brahmins; who are probably as good or as bad as me. But think of it, its this Indian culture to hold onto past background. In this age of technology, do we go around asking ppl — r u a brahmin or r u dalit? Does caste matter at all. Very true a mazdoor’s life is far-far tougher than a brahmin’s. And in rural places, casteism still exists. But will targetting the religion genuinely help? Instead can your focus be changed to acquiring education, skills, etc that will truly help your upliftment? Bashing religion will only exhaust your energies as such non-productive pursuits get you nowhere.

    || You cunningly changed the word “brahmin” which you began your post with , with “brahman” , and I know what will your next reply be of mine.You will counter by saying that you were referring to brahmin by deeds (rather than birth).I would advice you , in that case , you don’t reply at all.It would save your time as well as effort.Hearing utopian concepts of “brahmin-by-birth” again and again is quite irritating , when everyone knows that you are honestly defending brahmins-by-birth only.You yourself know this , ask your conscience how desperately you are trying to defend the brahmins by trying to invent logic , along with your ornamental words.
    I am sure you are a brahmin.Only a brahmin uses such cowardice tactics.||

    I am not defending brahmin by birth. I promise on God, I am not a brahmin, neither do I need to pretend to be anything. Its a situation I posed to you. I am not capable of such a disciplined life (its suffocating for me). I have been raised in a rather comfortable way, thence that attitude. Its easier for me being a monk of sorts inside my head, not restricted to specific ritual behavior or anything that i cannot relate to, to give up desire as and when that detachment comes and not given to a prescribed way of life. If you are capable of leading a life like that then its good for you. We will not have shortage of priests 10 years from now on.

    || No , I never said that.Read my post again.All I said was that the scriptures , which gives the brahmins the titles like “twice-born’ , “purer” etc , make them more vulnerable to become greedy and oppressive.And this is also the reason why I am attacking the source , i.e the scriptures , rather than the brahmins themselves.Just because greed is everywhere doesn’t mean that we should ignore it.We must find a remedy against it , and this is what I am doing.||

    Being ‘twice-born’ was designed to get rid of all base emotions like greed and make a man given to acquiring knowledge and serving God with devotion and without ego. How do you think anyone bcame ‘purer’ when there are so many saints amongst non-brahmins?

    The scriptures are not the source, they are the prescriptions and old patient records. How you want to take the medicine, whether you want to take that or a different medicine, etc…all depends on you, how you want to view things. Since you know your body best, you should seek counsel but also exercise some of your own discretion and do what suits you or you will end up with an allergic reaction.

    || Please explain how they are not the cause for casteism.And also , who is the cause of casteism?
    First of all , your statement is itself paradoxical.You make reference to a caste (brahmins) who are supposed to be above everyone else in hierarchy , and then claim that they didn’t create the caste-system.Who started calling them brahmins then?If they are a product of casteism then someone might have surely invented this system.And who else could it be except the ones who claimed to be the highest (if the scriptural evidence is to be ignored)?||

    Shankara already explained how the system came about due to a feudal society. We have atleast 10,000 years of ancient Indian history. Brahmans were not the highest hirearchy in many hindu cultures in the past.

    Let me give you an example: Lets say, a king won a war (they always went for fertile land, good water, etc remember we are an agrarian society – most are, world-wide (earliest domesticated men were farmers ofcourse), many kings were not really kshatriyas but traders / farmers owning large tracts of land, applies to the maurya times too and perhaps even in the very ancient times, the whole kshtriya thing is a undone-done thing — please read the bhavishya purana, it says a bit about how kshatriyas came about).

    After a war (always for land, sometimes for women, rarely for culture) was won, then to make a ‘constitution’ with a governing body for law, order, revenue collection, etc (the ‘government’), the kings would commission a brahman to become a law-maker. The brahman with his disciples (like say apasthamba) wrote laws for that country together with/ as instructed by the ruler. To ensure his generations always remained kings, the kings often asked for laws to be made such that caste is an occupation and is by birth. It depended on how good the king was. Am told sometimes they did not ask for such a clause it seems (am not sure abt this though). The law was mainly to ensure continuity of professions to prevent too much crowding into some lucarative occupations (eg: traders managing huge revenue guilds were either controlled by the king or were always usually related to the king). True brahman families were well taken care of. But above all, all that a brahman really earned was the highest form of respect — “reverence”.

    The families of the brahmans and kings also married it seems (i hear a few such inter-caste marriages happened even in recent feudal societies, meaning past 16th century, though the sources cannot be authenticated). The rulers were rather clever — marriage was used as an effective social tool — either to make peace or to forge alliances with families of traders and brahman royal advisors. They had many wives (but a larger number of concubines than wives, wives were rather ‘selected’ ones). Families (both trader and brahman ones) related to the kings wielded much power. So you have a whole class of people as so-called ‘upper castes’ — brahmans, kings and traders. But the kings themselves were in fact shudras and farmers (or a mix of food producers and food gatherers) since the advent of the maurya times (minus the muslim ones). So, its confusing as to who opppressed who. In fact, nobody did. All that they wanted was to ensure continutity of professions. The societies during those times seemed prosperous. So nobody seemed to bother. If you have money, will you be bothered about what ‘caste’ you belong to? So, where is the “caste system” you are talking about?

    Many many ages ago before the feudal times, caste was by birth in some cultures and not by birth in some other hindu cultures (probably decided either by kings or by brahmins themselves). This was like before atleast 2500 years (resolved most times with inter-mingling) and practically in disuse; since feudal societies had already taken root since a v.long time. The brahmans simply wrote and preserved that stuff recording it as very ancient history (unfortunately perhaps). The colonials wanted to find ways to justify british intervention in indian society (like america justifying a pre-emptive strike in iraq). It did not help that we were like crabs doing a lot of in-fighting. Practically every pre-colonial literature sent to the queen’s counsel referred to the manu smrithi. And thus was born the “divide and rule” legacy — the caste system was “used” to justify british intervention in India — to ‘liberate’ them from it. To be civilized meant to be christianized. And this is what is being continued after these many years of ‘freedom’ — this divide and rule legacy.

    Now what we have on our hands is diffrence of class, not caste or culture; diffrence of the status of money. What you need is money not caste. Why confuse both as the same? You can be a brahman and poor and a shudra and rich. It does seem to me the better off shudras are not bothered about caste. So, its all about money. If you going to harp on caste and culture, then how do you hope to uplift your class? Is it not better for you to focus on education and skills instead?

    || At least you admit that it is social class and not a spiritual class , as you were trying to justify in one of your earlier posts , even though you won’t admit its origins as the scriptures themselves.||

    Brahmans recorded “events” like history. Such literature is not really religious and can be debunked. Ask Shankara more about this please.

    End note: I have attempted to expain the best I could and my sources may not all be right. Shankara, please explain from the religion point of view in more detail. Thanks.

  85. happyhindu said

    Shankara,

    Also please can you explain if what i have written about this otehr stuff is correct please? Thanks much (as my history knowledge is very limited, based mainly on hear say with some internet and few books and this is a nice practical model). Thanks very-very much.

  86. HealTheLand said

    It is time the dalits removed this Satan called Hinduism that is tormenting them. Hinduism is an evil spirit that needs to be cast away. Paul did so regarding a demon dwelling in a human, but it can also be done with demons dwelling in places and afflicting situations, and there is nothing preventing you or any other born – again Christian from doing the same at any time and place: to spot or acknowledge the presence of an evil spirit, determine that the evil spirit’s presence is undesired (which will almost always be the case), and to tell the evil spirit to leave in the Name of Jesus Christ. The Dalits can be saved in the Name of Jesus.

  87. Dalit Man said

    I am dalit and I am not in caste system. My question to Dalit Nation and all Dalit people is which religion convert to: Buddhism, Chrisitianity or Islam. I am at Tamil nadu and here Buddhism is not much..there is no support for Buddhists also here. Tamil Nadu there is christians and mulsims. I want to convert to christianity along with my family and three relatives families related to us. Because christianity is okay in TN and more than Islam. Also in christianity no need to change name and all. so i want to know any places in madurai where we can convert. Where is the church and place to convert and what to do with convert and later.

  88. Rashid said

    The only solution to the plight of the Dalits is through conversion to Islam. I was a buddhist once and worked for the delhi development authority. Also built lot of Buddhist Viharas in Delhi slums. One day I found that they had all the illegal construction removed by bull dozers but these people in the delhi development authority spared a temple. at that time there was conversion in meenkashipuram of dalits to islam. I saw how dalits got a new life and after islam no one dared to disturb them. Because islam gives solidarity and unity.
    Dalits were the original inhabitants of this land, and some three thousand years ago, the fair-skinned Aryans invaded India from the north-west, subduing the original inhabitants, the Dravidians, and turning them into slaves. Now to keep them subjugated, physical force had to be supplemented with ideological and cultural force, and so you had the development of Brahminism and all its scriptures and superstitions.The real basis of Brahminism, which is really what Hinduism is all about, is the caste system, based as it is on the supremacy of the Brahmins and the degradation of the Dalits, treating them worse than animals. Cows, snakes and monkeys are worshipped in Hinduism, while the Dalits are treated worse than vermin. Thus, in order to be liberated from the caste system, the Dalits first need to liberate themselves from Hinduism.Ambedkar was aware that the most effective means for Dalit liberation was through converting to Islam. He said that the Dalits could choose from between Sikhism, Christianity or Islam, but added that Islam seemed to offer the Dalits the best deal. He commented on how Muslims are so closely united, and how the bond of Islamic brotherhood has no parallels in any other religious community or tradition. It is revealing to note that at this time he made no mention at all of Buddhism. The Nizam of Hyderabad granted him a huge sum of money for his educational projects and Muslims in East Bengal helped him get elected to the Constituent Assembly in the face of stiff Hindu opposition.
    There is this massive Muslim population in India. If the Dalits were to convert to Islam, they could easily be absorbed into the Muslim community, shedding off their Dalit-ness, in the process empowered by joining the fold of a large community.

  89. Fallen monk said

    Hinduism , Christianity , Islam etc are all bad.The only use of religions is to control the masses.It would be better for dalits to choose a religion which has better social values and has better support for a dalit in the world.
    So I would appreciate the dalits if they convert to Christianity or Islam or Sikhism or even Buddhism.Just shed off this stamp of dalit that has been given to them by the Hindus.Some dalits can just stay as atheists , like me , but will have to struggle to fight for equality.

    Also , this RSS should be taught a lesson.They always have a problem when dalits and tribals convert to ‘other’ religions.Hindus should mind their own business , as tribals and dalits are not ‘Hindus’.

  90. Bhikku Richard said

    @Fallen Monk

    After vanquishing and finishing off the Hindus, how do you think you can acheive unity and fraternity between Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Atheism. All these religions are at each others throats. I have stayed in India, Thailand, Malaysia and China and see the Missionaries are sparing no efforts to convert the Buddhists into Christianity. Same with the Muslims. The Hindus (of dravidian Tamilian origin and they are quite staunch Hindus) in Malaysia have been discriminated by the ethnic Malaysian Muslims. The Muslim malays have even rules in their constitution which discriminate people of other religions and ethnicity. The Hindus in the south east asian countries have a common cause with the Buddhists against the Muslims and Christians, quite rightly so as they have been denied their rights and want a decent living. They are under lot of pressure as their basic right to practice their religion and other fundamental rights (in case of Malay Hindus) are threatened.
    How do you think all these will be reconciled. Is the destruction of Hinduism the panacea for all the ills of India and the world.

  91. fallen monk said

    Bhikku,

    They are under lot of pressure as their basic right to practice their religion and other fundamental rights (in case of Malay Hindus) are threatened.

    This blog is for only one problem.Not all the problems can be solved at once , my friend , as they have different origin.This blog is to discuss one primary cause for most of the pathetic human condition in India – caste system.

    Is the destruction of Hinduism the panacea for all the ills of India and the world.

    Yes , at least of India.

    And you used quite strong words like “vanquishing” , “finishing off hindus” etc.Let me state it clear once again that my aggression is towards the blasphemous source of this caste evil , i.e Hinduism , rather than hindus.Hence , I am targeting Hinduism and not any hindu.

  92. Bhikku Richard said

    Fallen Monk,

    “Let me state it clear once again that my aggression is towards the blasphemous source of this caste evil , i.e Hinduism , rather than hindus.”

    I agree Caste is one of the biggest evils of Hindu soceity. Your aim of finishing the ideology of caste is commendable. Instead of attacking just the Caste System why do you want to attack the whole of the Hindu religion. This will start an endless cycle of retribution and violence. I also tend to agree with some people that Hinduism is not just the caste system. Based on my interactions with Hindus and Buddhists and living for many years in India and Thailand I find a lot of similarity betwen Hinduism and Buddhism. Hinduism apart from its evils of caste system also includes many eminent cultural practices and has a common thread with the Buddhist, Jain and other indic religions. You can realize the coexistence of Hinduism and Buddhism in Thailand where these two religions are interwined with each other. To be blind and not see these historical facts is intellectually fallacious.

    Also I am not sure if Hindus would so easily succumb and become Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and atheists. India is a populous country with huge numbers of people in different denominations. You will have millions of pople across different caste combinations and groups fighting against each other. As a Buddhist I can see that this confrontational idea would lead to more violence and polarization. The Buddhist leaders has always insisted on Dialogue and reconciliation between the different communities and religions. I am not sure how you can consider Navyana Buddhism as a form of the original teachings of the Buddha especially after it has rationalized violence and hate. I am not again discounting the oppression of the dalits but was it not the Buddha who said ‘the end does not justify the means’.

  93. Rajputana said

    Salam maleikum Rashid

    “Dalits were the original inhabitants of this land, and some three thousand years ago”

    This is lot of poppycock history created by British imperialists. No one believes in the Aryan Invasion theory anymore in any mainstream university as it is found wanting for any valid proof. The DNA studies of different castes have shown that caste is not race. Don’t repeat the same nonsense and no buyers of your poppycock history. Ambedkar has written in his ‘Annhilation of Caste’ that castes are not races (not that whatever Ambedkar writes is true. He was as much part of the imperialist conspiracy of distorting history. He always was a Bristish ass licker)

    ” the fair-skinned Aryans invaded India from the north-west, subduing the original inhabitants, the Dravidians, and turning them into slaves.”

    Fair skinned aryans who are they? In india the caste and colour are in no way related. Ambedkar was much fairer than say Gandhi. Man what an idiot you are. You don’t even know History and write as if you are an authority.

    “Now to keep them subjugated, physical force had to be supplemented with ideological and cultural force, and so you had the development of Brahminism and all its scriptures and superstitions.”

    Poppy cock history again. Hindus having no central organizing authority and how can they subdue anyone. It was your muslim invaders who subdued people and had a host of slaves. Go get some brain cells moron.

    ” Cows, snakes and monkeys are worshipped in Hinduism, while the Dalits are treated worse than vermin”

    You show again what an extrordinary moron you are. Most of the Dalit gods and dieties are Zoomorphic deities. Hinduism recognises god in all forms and is an amalgamation of all these. The dalit dieties are disrespected in your Islam and even it is quite clear that the worship of your dalit deity is punishable by death in Islam. Go read your Quran before talking about Hinduism. Also read the chrstian bible – they call Dalits who traditionally worship Zoomorphic deities as pagans the fit candidates to be roasted for eternity in their christian hell.

    “Ambedkar was aware that the most effective means for Dalit liberation was through converting to Islam. He said that the Dalits could choose from between Sikhism, Christianity or Islam, but added that Islam seemed to offer the Dalits the best deal. ”

    Ambedkar actually would have prostituted his followers to any one of these religions. But his personal ambitions came in between. If Ambedkar had converted to Islam he would have become a nobody. He would have changed his name to some Abu Baker or some shit like that and would have been a nobody. If he had converted to christianity he would have again been swallowed up by the bishops and pastors. He was quite a cunning guy and he converted to Buddhism which he didn’t realize is Hinduism itself.

  94. Bethal said

    Dalitnation what an article man. You have the great talent of becoming a great writer. You can even get that Hooker (or was it booker) prize. Hey one more thing.
    I was always a fan of Sonali Bendre the tall model who couldn’t act. Thanks for reminding me of her. Haven’t heard of her in the media for long so you are wrong that the media “always sided with their jatwallah actress like the maharistrian brahmins Madhuri Dixit and Sonali Bendre.” Thanks for all you guys for wasting your time and writing all that rubbish on this article.

  95. fallen monk said

    Rajputana ,

    Your own history is completely flawed.I am sure you studied history in the RSS shakas where they teach Ramayana , Mahabharata as a part of History.
    I am amazed how you claimed that AIT is false , without any hesitation , and that it is a creation of British imperialists.Do you know how many history books will have to be re-written if you directly throw away AIT as an invalid theory?The history of many Asian countries will have to be completely revised if AIT is proved wrong.

    Dalits should ignore such hindus who , although themselves can’t consider dalits as humans or ‘equals’ , but are also against any dalit converting to another religion.

  96. Shiva Kanna said

    This post is the most funny I have read since a long time. The discussion has been quite stimulating with the Brahmin Bashing and the counter arguements against it. The hate propoganda against Brahmins is carefully orchestrated by most of these people in the same lines of the anti semetic propoganda in Nazi Germany. People like Kancha Ilaiah, Gail Omvedt and V.T.Rajashekar have clearly taken up this poisonous agenda from their Christian and Islamic pay masters who are past masters in this anti semetic agenda and which they now want to employ this strategy and experiment in India.

    This is not a new or innovative tactic and has already been employed by the British and also their slaves like EV Ramasamy Periyar in Tamil Nadu. Periyar was from a rich land owning caste whose main grouse was the patriotism of people like Rajaji. He created unfounded propoganda against the Brahmins in the name of Rationalism. Periyar was the least rational of the people attacking a educated and progressive community by labelling them as irrational and expolitative. The same brahmin community in Tamil Nadu whom he attacked produced some of the greatest thinkers, scientists and rationalists like C.V.Raman, Subramanium Chandrashekar, Srinivas Ramanujan, Vilyanur Ramachandran and many others. Till date asia has not had a scientist of the calibre of C.V.Raman. Now that Brahmins are politically and socially marginalised in Tamil Nadu these criminals operating the Dravidian politics don’t know what else to do. The dalits are also now fighting against these criminals and these dalits were sold that idea that brahmins are exploiters and now without the brahmins they are again exploited. The landowning so called dravidians are the richest people in tamil nadu. The dalits again are not one single caste. The whole thing called dalit is an artificial creation and they are a group of thousands and thousands of castes from all over india. The best way the dalits can be exploited is to teach them hatred against brahmins. In india there is no commonality between dalit communities like for example the mahars in maharashtra or madigas in karnataka or gurars in UP. The mahars fought in the british army and many were fighters, the madigas were oppressed scavengers, the gurjars were highly clannish violent dacoits. This is a small snapshot but if we analys the dalit community there is a story behind every caste. This identity is hidden by the boardroom dalit scholars like VTR, gail omvedt and kancha ilaiah.

    It was Gandhi who actually went to the ground and worked with the oppressed people. He identified with the most oppressed people and worked the way they worked. But now the dalits are made to belive that Gandhi is demon incarnate.Ambedkar was had little in common with a oppressed dalit. He was an anglophile who in his day to day life mingled mainly with the upper caste and europeans and loved his daily dose of scotch. The really dispossed dalit in India is used as a pawn in this political game. Most of the so called dalit leaders and their followers are rich people claiming to be dalits and oppressed as they belong to a specific caste grouped under dalits. They use the really oppressed people to gain power. They say caste and class are same because the moment we accept the class divide is there across all castes their game is finished. These boardroom dalits need constant news of atrocities on dalits which they use as fodder in their political games. Any atrocity anywhere is loudly broadcasted as the handiwork of brahmins. In none of these Brahmins would be involved and it is very clear from all the recent atrocities on poor people there were no Brahmins and poor brahmins themselves are discriminated. Instead of working on the issues of poverty, unemployment and social welfare these so called dalits are involved in a hate campaign against the powerless brahmins and in reality the oppression continues as brahmins are not the cause. The sooner the weaker and dispossed sections of the population realizes this the better for them. The christian and islamist organizations whose mouth waters at the mention of dalit would never want them to progress but just add them to their community so that they get the numbers to gain power. They are also answerable to their popes and religious leaders in the agenda for conversion. They act as if the christian and islam is a panacea of dalits. As a matter of fact these people have discriminated dalits more than any one else when they had their muslim and christian rules in India.

  97. happyindianhindu said

    Wud like to add here that it is unfortunate that because of 1 periyar and 1 vaiko, many nayakas are viewed with the ‘anti-brahmin’ glasses; when in reality it is the opposite – they remain staunch hindus with most as staunch vaishnavites. The bunch that seeks to make a living out of non-brahminism is shunned by every single naidu that i know.

    If dalits want progress, they should stop fighting over religion. And concentrate on making money.

  98. VT Rajshekar’s “Dalit Voice” – A Charlatan’s Mouthpiece

    “Dalit Voice” is a monthly magazine published by a Bangalore based hate-monger VT Rajshekar, an inveterate liar and an Islamic poster boy. VT Rajshekar calls himself dalit (oppressed) and claims to be the modern Buddha [He does not do self praise overtly. He has his own group of pliant cliques whom he peppers with small portion of the doles he receives from mid-East. The same people glorify him in the various issues of the magazine, and the narcist editor publishes all those paid paeans…]

    Visit http://www.khawatein.blogspot.com for full blog…

  99. RK said

    LOL. What an article! Salman Khan wanted to save Aishwarya Rai from the caste system by marrying her. This is the most hilarious thing I have ever read.

    Moreover, the author(?!) does not understand that the classification said in Bhagawad Gita is based on the profession and not by birth. Thus, Drona, being a Brahmin became the martial and warfare teacher to the Kurus.

    People, everyone is same. Differentiating them by birth is the greatest sin and curse of mankind.

    ROTFL.

  100. shweta said

    This is one silly article by one silly person who has nothing better to do. Life is short brother. Enjoy each breath as it comes. You never know how much is left for you. Sheer stupidity to engage oneself in such hatred.
    Law of Attraction will let you understand that the more you focus on all these negativities the more you are going into negativity. Please focus your energy in something positive and you will definitely start feeling the goodness, the abundance and the wealth you have been given.

    Please try. Don’t give up !

  101. Puli said

    Great. Its great to read the minds of people here. The people who have aired their view here know how to use a computer/internet, allowing me to assume that they are educated.

    If the thoughts of the educated people are going in this way, i pity for my religion which has so much of complications and discriminations.

    If the educated section of the society is thinking like this………i just can’t imagine how the un-educated people or the people in villages think (by villages, i mean backward areas/locations).

    There is no end to the discrimination until this caste system continues. Castesim is never going to stop and so as the discrimination.

    The day when people stop to add prefixes to their children’s name (example, Anil SHETTY, Manoj GUPTA, Sanjay SHARMA, Rajasekhar REDDY, Vinay AGARWAL……………………….and the list goes on) will be the beginning of the end of castesim. Until then…….protection/reservation of some kind should be extended to the oppressed or the subject of discrimination.

    They day when we decide to name your children without a prefix/suffix which symbolises the caste and the day when the application forms in schools and colleges will be printed without the Caste field, we all can proudly demand an end to the Reservaton Policy.

    Closing Note: Baba Saheb is an intellectual and one of the all time Greats in the history of India. Please donot compare any other person with him.

  102. Digrantha said

    @Puli

    If caste has to go then reservations based on caste lines have to go. The reservations only strengthen the castes and in no way will they help in bringing a casteless soceity. Every caste in india including muslims and christians want to be bracked under oppressed caste to claim reservation. So how will casteism go?

  103. My Name is X said

    @ Puli
    Never seen a more idiotic and stupid person than you. You talk of removing caste and then ask for caste based reservation. Just another means of bringing casteism to soceity and perpetuate to the new generations. The only reason people use caste in application forms in colleges and schools and government jobs is for claiming reservations. Other than that it has no other value. Caste will remain as long as the politicians use it as vote bank. Same with religions and other linguistic divides. The politiians thrive on these divides especially those politicians like who thrive on Caste, religion and linguistic divides. Parties like BSP, BJP, Shiv sena, republican party, dalit sangharshan samithi and many others. These people are the cause of casteism. If not for these people casteism would have disappeared long before.

    You say people should stop using prefixes like shetty, gupta, sharma, reddy. Thats actually good in a way. Also pelase ask other religious people to stop using the prefixes on their names like pathan, Khan, Syed, de souza, fernandes, Green, Brown, jain, batliwala and many many many others. Maybe we should ban second names and like malcolm x adopt some alphabet as second name. Lets also start calling ambedkar as Bhim and lets remove ‘rao ambedkar’.

  104. fallen monk said

    @Mr X

    Caste-based reservations are not an example of casteism , but are a remedy to strengthen the people who are victims of this horrendous system , if not to eradicate the system itself completely.You are demanding that first the caste-based reservations should go and then casteism will also automatically disappear.Don’t you think it is highly absurd , Mr X?If the reservations disappear than this country will become even more backward as some part of it (23% to be precise) would be highly subjugated , harassed and oppressed for no sensible reason , whatsoever , than accident of birth.And when the internal structure of a building itself is so weak , where remains the scope for development?Perhaps , you should ponder on why India is still under-developed despite the fact that this land has all the riches and resources required for a developed nation.In fact , it is not resources and riches alone that decide the status of nation , as Japan is developed even though the land is poor in natural resources.I am sure you might have guess the main factor – social equality and unity.
    Without it India will remain a poor country robbed by a few “upper” castes and classes.

  105. Puli said

    Hi Mr X,

    Thank you for your sensible response.

    Infact i appreciate you for the fact that you have actually spent good enough time to read and respond.

    Unfortunately, i assume that you have missed these lines written by me.

    “They day when we decide to name your children without a prefix/suffix which symbolises the caste and the day when the application forms in schools and colleges will be printed without the Caste field, we all can proudly demand an end to the Reservaton Policy.”

    Im trying to say that WE CAN PROUDLY DEMAND FOR AN END TO THE RESERVATION POLICY at the end of the sentence.

    You are saying that, “Also pelase ask other religious people to stop using the prefixes on their names like pathan, Khan, Syed, de souza, fernandes, Green, Brown, jain, batliwala………” We, the readers are one amongst this long list and we should initiate things instead of asking other to do or follow. Its not my game or your game. If we feel that its going to help the solution then lets do it together.

    And, moreover we are talking about Castesim, lets flush out that feeling from our minds and hearts, then the end-of-reservation policy will fall in place. Infact people will volunteer to come into open competetion when the hearts and minds feel that “Im no more discriminated”.

    It takes hours to write your mind and it takes seconds to write your emotions.
    I dont mind if people call me an idiot or a stupid as long as people are willing to THINK and contribute thoughts in addressing the issue.

    People will feel the intensity of this situation when they actually face it. Metros will not reflect the actual situation……..there are few villages where they still follow 2 glass system in hotels. People are asked about their caste before they are served food and water. When we experience such a kind of discrimination, then we feel the intensity of the problem. Its so easy to say REMOVE RESERVATIONS, we have seen so many people getting killed in Anti-Reservation rallies. If the focus was on Anti-Castesim, we would have seen a different social structure around.

    Yeah, u said it right, no political party will survive if they talk about Anti-Reservation. Then, lets do our part, let them survive. Lets not vote for the people who talk about it or who encourage it. All this ……only after the removal of Caste field in the application forms and also from our minds.

    Regards,
    Puli

  106. Shagun said

    Yep I agree. I am pro Reservations for people like Aishwarya and her community. Right way to lift the oppressed people is caste based reservations.

  107. fallen monk said

    VTR an Kancha Illaiah are not dalit leaders.They are just vomiting their hatred for Brahmins.They are no different from Brahmins as they play with dalit emotions to achieve their motive.
    A true dalit leader is yet to come.

  108. Bharat said

    Namaste,

    “A person does not become a Brahman by birth, nor does he fail to become a Brahman by birth. A person becomes a Brahman by actions, and he fails to become a Brahman also by actions.” ~Buddha [Sutta-nipata, pg. 650]

    In the final section of the Vasettha Sutta (649-652), the Buddha moves from the examination of particular practices to formulate a general theory about the character of human action in the world. The so called fixed biological order, on examination, turns out be a mental abstraction from the relatively stable social practices of individuals sharing the same species nature:

    For those who do not know this fact [the naming process]
    Wrong views have long underlain their hearts
    Not knowing, they declare to us:
    “One is a brahmin by birth.”
    [But] One is not a brahmin by birth,
    Nor by birth is one a non-brahmin
    By action (kamma) is one a brahmin.
    By action is one a non-brahmin.
    For men are farmers by their acts
    And by their acts are craftsmen too.
    And men are merchants by their acts
    And by their acts are servants too.
    And men are priests by their acts
    And by their acts are rulers too. (650f.)
    —–

    Please don’t fall in the mind games. Choose your role-model(s) and emulate him/her and become a good human being. You can be a Buddha, by arousing and realising Buddha in you.

    Bharat
    ===

  109. Ranna said

    Some folks here have suggested Shramanas were jains. In the ancient times Brahmins, Jains and Buddhists were a highly integrated community. There was lot of intermingling between these communities. The modern day descendents of Shramanas are Brahmins. ‘Sharma’ is a common surname among Brahmins. Vegetarianism evolved from the Shramans who were all ascetics. Not all Brahmins, Jains and Buddhists were Shramanas. However practices like vegetarianism was adopted by the jains and all the other brahmins much later as the economy became more agrarian. Buddhists, including the Buddha were not vegetarian.

    Another note, South India was ruled by Jains and Buddhists. There used to be a easy walk in and walk out from the Brahmin, Buddhist and Jain traditions in South India. The adi Kavi (the first poet) of Kannada, Pampa was born a Brahmin but was a Jain in his belief system. He also wrote the Ramayana in Kannada in 2 century CE. In Karnataka there is a history of Jains and Brahmins living together in places like Moodabidri, Karkala and Sravanabelogola. There has been no historical animosity other than theological debates and fights. The same with the Buddhists. We can evidence this in the Badami and Ihole caves where the Saivaites, Vaishnavaites, Buddhists and Jains lived together in separate caves and compartments following their respective faiths. Bodhidharam, was a pallava brahmin prince from tamil nadu and he was instumental in trasmitting the meditation vareity of Buddhism to China and which later morphed as zen in japan.

    The Mimasaka and Buddhist Schools were predominanted by people from Brahmin Community. Mandana Mishra was one such famous Mimasaka scholar and leader. He was ‘defeated’ and ‘won over’ in a debate with Shankaracharya and he converted to the advaitha school of vedanta. He changed his name to Sureshwaracharya and headed the Puri Peetha in Orrissa. Mishra is a very common surname among Brahmins in Orissa and North India. There were Buddists whose surname was Mishra in Orissa.

    If you just go by the surnames it is quite clear that Brahmins are the descendents of the famous Buddhist clans. Ambedkar’s and Dravidians claim that Dalits were Buddhists and Jain is a historically wrong claim. The dalits have always been pantheistic animists worshipping zoomorphic deities. Infact there is absolutely no proof of any of the thouands of Dalit caste having any links with Buddhism. However it is clear that some modern day Brahmins are the descendents of the Buddhists. It is ridculous for the dalits to bemoan the demise of Buddhism in India as they were no way involved in the Buddhist movement. It was the Brahmin and Kshatriyas who formed the majority of the Buddhist clergy (around 98%). The dalit writers have gone off tangent by pitching Brahmins against Jains/Buddhists and claiming that Dalits are the Descendents of the Buddhists and Jains. If at all any community can claim closeness to the Buddhist tradition in India it is the Brahmins through historical ancestry. Even if they had their theological fights. It is only people who are close who can debate and fight with ideas especially in the ancient indian landscape where there was no communication facilities and the exchange of ideas happened only in close knit societies which even had family and genetic ties between them.

  110. Shambhala said

    In this modern age what matters is what practice system and values you adhere to not what your grandfather or great grandfather or some remote ancestor followed.

  111. Poorna said

    Ranna thats an important analysis. Based on the surnames of the ancient Buddhists we can make out that all of them converted or got assimilated into the Brahmin fold as many Brahmins have these surnames in the modern age. Not just surnames even popular names from Buddhist lore are preserved through Brahmin names – padma, prajna, paramitha etc. These names were exclusively kept by Brahmins till very recently. Now all hindus have these names.

  112. Ramchandra Shastri said

    The first mention of Shramana comes from Taitariya Arnyaka (7th century BC) of the Krishna Yajurveda. śramati tapasyatīti śramana (“a śramana is he who exerts himself and performs religious austerities”). However sramanas came from all castes. There were jain, buddhists and vedics in the shramana tradition. Chanakya the political philosopher was also from the shramana lineage and he was austere in his lifestyle. Buddha studied in the shramana lineage but went out of this as he adopted a middle path as opposed to the extreme austerity of the shramanas. The Jains brought the shramana teachings to the common folks in the ancient cities.

  113. sharmanic said

    Hi All,

    I am a New Entrant who read all the discussions…To My beloved friends (Dalitnation not included)..When dogs bark there is no necessity of replying them couz we are humans,else there will be a situation for us to reply by barking back..So please close your ears untill these dalit nation ppl bark until they exhaust…If they exceed the threshold limit..any way we will prove them that we wont bark back..but hit with a stone

  114. Hi

    I wish to draw the attention of the readers of this wesite to various brahmin websites too especially that of the Tamil Brahmins.

    Those are at the other extreme. Does the reality lie somewhere in between or is it skewed towards one of these two sides. Judge for your self.

    Who is provoking and who is reacting? Chicken and egg story?

    Well what is all this problem about. Caste is the prime cause. Abolish caste which means abolish intra-caste marriage first followed by abolition of caste titles and trace caste identity through both mother and father for banning intra-caste marriages. Finally when all are equal and no caste exists – reservations will stand abolished too. Well then websites on caste may cease to exisit too.

    Nobody is going to write anything about anybody because there would be nobody with a single caste identity. Sounds strange? Well caste system sounds as strange to outsiders.

    Those at the receiving end might be justified in their anger and venom. Why then equally potent venom from Brahmin websites. Are they opressed too. Have they sufferred over centuries?? Makes me wonder. Who is the victim and who is the oppressor? I am still wondering!!!

  115. Good Dalitnation!!! Contribute your mite to abolition of Caste and rope in the brahmins, who feel aggrieved too. The solution is to abolish caste unitedly with the brahmins who pour thier angst in their websites and are unhappy with the other end of the caste spectrum!!

    Just invite them to your efforts at abolishing caste. Find out if they would join you? Try this out with all your innocence!!!!

  116. John said

    Actually I think by supporting Salman Khan you are agreeing that beating women is right? I say so because that is what Salman Khan did, he beat up Rai. Shows how stupid you morons are.

  117. avikal said

    well well
    i am amused to see in what nonsense we as a country have fallen.
    truth is how many of us as indians dare to take on brithishers who beat us all with the same stick!!!
    they started apartheid and look what they did to native africans…
    you say dalits were opperessed…yes that’s true
    every human if gets a chance will oppress the lesser being…
    i ask how as humans have we fared?
    no we have not…
    there is no use weeping what the past was?
    if dalits wanted they should have revolted in those times.
    what is the point of making such a rucus now?
    i am born in a brahmin family…
    but so what?
    one must be a brahmin by work and thinking!!!
    birth is just accidental not our will…
    i know the person who feels the anger seething within cannot control his feelings but dalitnation think again?!!
    IS IT WHAT BUDDHA SAID?
    i say if u meditate a little and go deep within yourself then you will know that we all are born shudras and shudra means “trivial”.
    isn’t it true that we all waste our life in trivialities and playing in the hands of others?
    think and you will know…
    your article just speaks of your state of mind….
    i will say JUMP IN YOUR OWN BEING AND SEE WHO YOU ARE
    if you dont like what i say
    then i beg your pardon
    and you can brand me another fucking brahmin
    but this wont help you…
    goodbye

  118. leander said

    what a outragsously funny funny and stupid article. I seriously didnt know, people can be so paranoid and hallucinate to such an extreme degree..

    May dalit-nation win the Indi-Blogger of the year 2008. AMEN…

  119. maha said

    hello……..
    friends why are u discussing about aishwarya’s marriage.we really don’t about that whether she mrried a banana tree or not why u r blaming brahmins.

  120. maha said

    hai…….
    also i’m saying if amitabh dislike his community .then definitely he didn’t do the marriage. this stupid conversation started by ilayya.he dislike unification of dalits – brahmins all over india

  121. maha said

    i wrote a mistake in my last post.
    please read like this
    “also i’m saying if amitabh dislike her community .then definitely he didn’t do the marriage. this stupid conversation started by ilayya.he dislike unification of dalits – brahmins all over india”

  122. Dilip C Mandal said

    pl go through Karnataka OBC list. Shetty/chetty/chettiar are OBC and the entry number in central OBC list is 82.

    check this URL

    http://ncbc.nic.in/backward-classes/karnataka.html

  123. Cool said

    Great! Shows how horribly the government functions. Only the rich dalits seem to have benefitted from begging for reservations.

  124. katy said

    i, i cume from brahmin femily.. if anyone is trouble ime sorry….

  125. C. L . CHUMBER said

    ALL GOVT.JOBS.MUST NOT BE FOR CREAMY LAYER !!!!!
    Dear Cool ,
    We are very much thankful for your sympathy for poor reserve categories.But you have not sympathy for poor of general category . You and general category people do not demand to apply creamy layer clause to unreserved posts .also .Why double standard ? This is brahminism which is deadly anti reserve category people since the fall of the Indus Valley Civilization .We have recognized the real socio-religious enemy due to like you people.Thanks..

  126. Dilip C Mandal said

    “You and general category people do not demand to apply creamy layer clause to unreserved posts .”

    well said. food for thought. tks mr chumber.

  127. Manjusha said

    To Chumber,

    First thing is General Category is not a casteist segment. General category means anyone can compete and there are no sops given and no lesser cut off percentage as in the case of reserved category.

    “You and general category people do not demand to apply creamy layer clause to unreserved posts .”

    Now let us see what do you mean by this. If you are say applying for a seat in a reserved category for SC/ST or BCs in an engineering or medical college then you have a set of seats that needs to be filled for the total 50% posts irrespective of how many marks they get. Even the cut off percentage for these categories is less. In a general category this is just meaningless as you are competing based on your marks. Just shows how idiotic you are.

    To Dilip Mandal,

    “well said. food for thought. tks mr chumber.”
    Certainly a food for thought for your depraved brain.

  128. h said

    Exactly.

    Reservations must be for the poor — irrespective of caste.

  129. Rajesh T.R. said

    After reading Dalitnation I have come to realize that V.T. Rajashekar is the tallest intellectual in the whole world. He exceeds Ambedkar by miles. I wonder why there is no other sites other than Dalit Voice and Dalit Nation who talk about this great intellectual. Must be a Brahmin and Jewish conspiracy. I heard that one of the Google founder was a Jew and also his professor in Harward was a Tamil Brahmin. Maybe they are controlling the searches in Google.com.
    Great you are doing a wonderful job.

  130. Dilip C Mandal said

    There is de facto 50% reservation for 15% upper caste people in govt jobs. UPSC is practicing this. pl go through rule 16(2) of UPSC.

    Due to this rule, toppers like J Ganeshan’s (rank-4 in gen list of 2006) name finds place only in OBC list. Madras HC had quashed this rule. But supreme court has again ruled in favor of anti reservation forces.

    There must be creamy layer criteria for general/upper caste category seats. Why are you people against poor Brahmins?

  131. Dilip C Mandal said

    General Category is a casteist segment. Ask UPSC.

  132. Mahesh said

    Rajesh,

    The Google founders were from Stanford. The Tam-Bram you refer to is Ram Shriram, who was the angel investor and also came up with the name Google instead of the original name Googol.

    Therefore according to these guys, Google must be a Brahmin/Jew conspiracy .

    Incidentally, the community I was born into is called VishwaBrahmin. Does that make me half racist or what ! ROTFL.

  133. Tamble said

    Dalip Mandal,
    The best thing is to scrap reservation and allow only the meritorious irrespective of whatever caste, creed, class or religion to gain admission to educational institutions.
    The whole policy of reservation is ill conceived, illogical and goes against the basic democratic right of equal oppurtunity.

  134. Dilip C Mandal said

    caste is in the DNA of We, The Indians and we all know this. why do not you see the matrimonial columns of the newspapers? lower caste candidates always get less marks in interviews in all the exams. SC/ST/OBC Candidates of AIIMS are demanding that the marks of internal assessment shd be reduced but this is not happening. who is afraid of merit?????

    only upper caste people can say that there is no caste discrimination in the society, because they never face this.

  135. Dilip C Mandal said

    tamble,

    you do not know the meaning of democracy. if it is not inclusive then, it is scrap. you cannot deprive 85% of the population of all opportunities and call this system democracy. all democracies practice some form of affermative action.

    the opposition of elites to reservation does not necessarily stem from caste chauvinism but is result of much deeper anti-poor sentiments. It can be simply understood in terms of reluctance of “haves” to share there pie with “have nots”.

    no upper caste elit supports mayawati when she said that there shd be 10% reservation for the poors of upper caste.

    they conjure up thousand different excuses to explain their anti-reservation stand, the most common being the bogey of merit. is merit not outcome of opportunity plus ability, or only ability defines merit.

    would an Einstein born in poor marginalized family of rural India be able to attain his merit?

  136. Tamble said

    Dilip Mandal,

    “lower caste candidates always get less marks in interviews in all the exams.
    SC/ST/OBC Candidates of AIIMS are demanding that the marks of internal assessment shd be reduced but this is not happening. who is afraid of merit????? ”

    If this is true the problem here is discrimination. That can end not by lowering the cut off marks and percentage for the SC/ST/OBC but ending discrimination. By lowering the cut off percentage of admission for some castes/groups of people you are starting discrimination all over again.

    The problem is to bringing stricter and objective laws not reservation. Why should say the children of Laloo yadav or Jagajivan ram have resrvation. Your reasoning is completely flawed.

    “would an Einstein born in poor marginalized family of rural India be able to attain his merit?”

    An baby with a potential of einstien will certainly have merit and get through in the general category. The problem here is poverty – provide economic sops to the poor.

    Unfortunately reservation does not reach the poor as they drop of school at a very young age. The votaries of reservation are the rich SC/BC/OBCs and these people just have it too easy and trample upon the rights of others. The petty bourguieus dalit politicians of course would support reservation as it is just a free ride for the rich among dalits.

  137. Sundaram said

    As a tamilian and unfortunately belonging to a Brahmin caste in TN i had got 94 percent in my pre univesity undergraduate studies. It became impossible for me to get into medicine, my first love. In Tamil nadu the general category is hardly 10 to 15 percent. If a so called upper caste (I am a Tamil Iyengar) has to get into medicine he has to score nothing less than 98% and also a much higher ranking in the entrance test. I had to finally settle for an engineering seat in an REC in far off Punjab. My class mates and some of best friends got into medicine and engineering so easily in Chennai just by the virtue of the fact that they were bracketed under the lower caste. A close friend of mine from the Vanniyar caste(some are oBC/ some SC) got 62% and also a seat in the madras medical college under some reserved category. The friend was son of a textile tycoon whose father’s company had a turnover of 150 crores (at that time in 1991). Many other gounder, chettair, sc and OBC friends of mine also came from rich backgrounds and owned vast tracts of land. As a matter of fact I realised the castes of these people only during the time of college admissions. Wheras I came from an impoverished family, my father had died when I was 4 years old leaving my mother to take care of my sister and me. She did struggle to get us educated by doing odd jobs like cooking and selling agarbhatthis. All our lives we were at the mercy of moneylenders who were from an OBC caste (their caste I came to know much later after my indoctrination into the modern Indian caste pyramid of Periyyar, ambedkar and mandal). I could finish my education through these loans. No national bank would give me loans as we had no property or deposits.

    Thankfully I was able to complete my engineering with 88% overall score and thankfully because of the economic liberalization and privatization I could get a job in a private firm. I have now worked for 12 years in the industry on an average of 12 – 18 hours a day. Made a mark in this place where there is no caste system and contributed immnsely to the companies i worked with. I have visited more than 20 countries. Stayed in 4 countries. Have done my higher studies from an american university while working. Thankfully i was saved from the poisonous clutches of reservation and the unjust government policies through private sector through extraordinary hardword and industry. Everyday I hope and pray that more and more Government functions get privatised in India. I am sure not many so called upper caste in Tamil Nadu will be as lucky as me or they have the strength to bear and overcome the injustice.

    For my children and the new generation, everyday I pray and hope for the following:

    1.Day by Day government becomes inefficinet and corrupt. We see the signs of it already by the corrupt BCs/SCs/OBCs. They have got theeir jobs without any struggle. Havent ever seen a government official work for more than 8 – 10 hours. That is the quantity of time , the less talked about the quality the better. But I wish it crumbles due to this inefficiency.
    2. More and more government functions become privatized. The private sector reservation can never take into affect because of the very nature of private capital and ownership. It is just not possible except in some chamcha-lala companies.
    3. Education beciomes more and more privatized due to influx of private sector / foreign universities.
    4. Our Indian colleges like IITs / IIMs / RECs, Government owned medical colleges and other colleges gets discredited due to inefficiency and lack of talent and in its place, the universities owned and funded by private sector sponsors become recognized.
    5. eLearning becomes more and more pervalent and this should allow easy access to knowledge and education.
    6. Bank loans become easily available to the meritorious irrespective of caste as Merit and knowledge can act as sureity.
    7. The private sector lobbies become stronger and influence the receidual government functions (Administration, police, revenue and other which cannot be privatized). We can see this happening already so there is lot of hope.
    8. The castes become more seggregated and each caste asserts its identity as Mr V.T. Rajashekar has propounded. They the so called Dalit and OBC factions disappear as they are artificial constructs. The dalits consists of some thousands of caste with no commonality between them. There is nothing in common between a chamar and mahar or a gurjar. Chamars were cobblers, mahars were sychophants of the british and worked in the british army and gurjars were violent dacoits. All those pipe dreams of BSP and mayavathis will soon turn out to be illusory. Thats why VTRs theories are good. I sometimes feel he is a disguised upper caste guy out to beat the petty bourguios dalit politicians in their own game. In fact no dalit other than the dalit activistis I have met like to call themselves Dalit. Even Navayana Buddhists invest a lot of time in pujas. They like to call themselves by their caste name.

    I am not saying that the private sector capitalistsw are angels. They are as corrupt as anyone else. But they are all driven by the profit motive unlike the lotus eating corrupt government institutes and politicians. This profit centerdness and their love for more revenue and profits will make them overlook caste, creed and color and look for efficency and merit. Therein lies the emancipation of poor students.
    I was drawn to communism many times and always thought that they were the people who would uplift the working class proletariat. But the capitalist bourgouies have now roped in the petty bourgious dalit politicains like Mayavathis, Karunanidhi and mulayams and many others. I am sure none of these petty bourguious politicains like Mayavathi are concerned about the poor and suffering masses (the proletariat). They are just standing on caste identity to get the bougious among their castes to come to power. So I have now pegged my hope on the capitalists as it works. Communism mixed with caste can be horrible for poor families. Their social engineering would be a death knell for the upper caste poor. Thats why I have started liking the tirade of V.T.Rajashekar and the dalit intellectuals including ambedkar who have completely divorced marxism from their lives and thrive on caste. This will be a big rope and they would finally hang themselves with it.

  138. C. L . CHUMBER said

    DEPRAVED BRAINS WORSHIP RAPIST, RACIST & FASCIST SO CALLED GODS !!!!!

    Dear viewers ,
    I wrote a writing ( May 18,2008 @ 7.18 pm ) under the title ” All govt. jobs must not be for creamy layer .” Mr.Dalip C.Mandal ( May 20,2008 @8.25 am )appreciated my views ” you and general category people do not demand to apply creamy layer clause to unreserved posts also.” Mr. Mandal reproduced this line and wrote in appreciation, “well said food for thought tks mr. chumber .” What was wrong in my writing and in appreciation by Mr.Dalip. C. Mandal ?
    Mr./Mrs./Miss Manjusha on May 20,2008 @ 9.53 am said ,” certainly a food for thought for YOUR DEPRAVED BRAINS .” Whose brain is depraved ?
    The depraved brains created caste/varna system ! The depraved brains worship the rapist , racist and fascist so called Gods !! The depraved brains are anti-poor of general category !!! The depraved brains demands only creamy layer clause for reserve categories.!!! We Having excellent brains demand that the creamy layer must be imposed on all govt,/semi-govt. jobs so that the poor Indians may get jobs to develop their families.!!!!! The creamy clause may go to pvt. jobs for handsome perks !!!!!! ONE DAY THIS WILL BE THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE WHICH THE GOVTS. MUST HAVE TO IMPLEMENT BY IGNORING THE DEPRAVED BRAINS !!!!!!! Thanks.

  139. Manjusha said

    Mr Chumber,

    As a person so involved in deep Identity politics you have no clue what you are talking about.

    When I am addressing a person I am not addresing his caste or beleifs like you. I am addressing their views that they have told and these illogical views are coming from a depraved brain.

    You are simply using adhominem arguments to divert the attention out of your illogical arguments.

    “The depraved brains created caste/varna system ! The depraved brains worship the rapist , racist and fascist so called Gods ”

    Now how do you prove that I created Caste/Varna. Please give me proof.
    Please prove to me that I worship dome racist or facist god. I am an atheist for your kind information.

    Again I would repeat to you (not your caste or whatever) but just you based on your idiotic rantings in this site – GET SOME BRAIN CELLS – YOU MORON.

  140. Comorade Kranthi said

    Sundaram,

    Your story is very inspiring and congragulate for whatever you have acheived in your life despite all the hardships you have been meted out by an unjust system. But I think you have got mixed up on the communist stuff.

    Communism is about class struggle between the Proletariat and Bourgeous. The proletariat are the working class the economically dispossed irrespective of whatever caste, religion or creed. The dalit thinkers right from Ambedkar and periyar to VT Rajashekar opposed communism not because they love the dispossed people but just because their caste theory will fall apart. Also we should understand that Caste is not Class. A person like Periyar came from an extremely rich family and lived like a playboy till he was sixty. Obviously he couldnt have talked about communism as his supporters were all capitalists/landowning bourgeous. Ambedkar could not accept communism because his support was again from the british colonial capitalists. He got his support base from them and used the Dalits of all classes (not just the poor) as his political weapon. In modern India it is this rich and fuedal so called Dalits and OBCs who are land owners who play this game of caste and vote bank politics. Even they have joined hands with the oppressive Brahmins and other upper caste capitalist bourgeous. Remember how Mulayam singh yadav was the darling of all these dalits and OBCs a few years ago. Now he is seen with ambanis and subroto roys. The same will be with Mayavathi. There is no difference between a Mayavathi and a Jayalalitha. Both are equally corrupt. Only thing is mayavathi claims that she comes from an oppressed caste. It is just a matter of time when these people like BSP disintegrates as they are play the Bougeous identity politics. They will make their money and pack up for a new pack of wolves to come in and loot. THe biggest losers are the poor people who are the dalits, the real dalits.
    So it is not about economics at all. Just identity politics. The essense of Communism/ Marxism is completely lost. Marx had said ‘Religion is the opium of the masses.’ but has he seen india he would have said ‘caste is the opium of the masses’. The modern day dalit movement if nothing else will only result in more casteism.

  141. Proudtobebrahmin said

    Ha,ha,ha. A perfect example, in my opinion, of what an incendiary post looks like!! Aishwarya married Abhishek because both of them happen to be successful and famous actors in their own right and not because of some conspiracy theory. Dear author, at least inject some objectivity into it to make it believable next time!

  142. C.L.CHUMBER said

    MANJUSHA REFRAIN FROM DOME RAPIST,RACIST & FASCIST GODS !!!!!

    Respected Manjusha ,
    First of all, I congratulate on your refraining from the dome rapist , racist and fascist Gods ! You are the first person who denounced these so called Gods by calling them as DOME ( 23 May, 2008 @ 6.00 am ).in the Dalit-nation blog ! Thanks. Wish you all good luck . Thanks .

  143. Karthikeyan said

    Read the pattern in any of the posts made by ‘dalitnation’. Every single post contains lines as “brahmins are rediculing dalits”, “brahmins are jelous of dalits”, and even “brahmins are afraid of enlightened dalits”. Also “brahmins believe only what they want to believe”. He’s repeating this like mantra and deeply writing it in his veins and is pushing in the brains of the masses.
    Also he shows no respect to people just because they are brahmins. Maha Vishnu is called in thousand names. But the names dalitnation and C.L.Chumber with which they refer Maha Vishnu is totally uncultured. I don’t think this is a true anger of an oppressed class. This is a propoganda with vested interests in mind. Om Namo Narayanah.

  144. Dilip C Mandal said

    In IIM-A, one has to spend Rs 0.55 million every year as tuition fee and income limit for OBC student’ family is Rs 0.25 million. What an irony? What a farce? What a judgment from Supreme Court? No wonder that people are demanding reservation/RTI in judiciary.

    Lets ask govt to care for poor of all caste. Creamy layer criteria shd be for every one, including general seats.

    you upper caste people do not care for upper caste poor. Do you?

  145. C,L.CHUMBER said

    GOVT. MUST BAN ON UNCULTURED BRAHMINS` STILL WORSHIPING AND
    GLORIFYING DOME RAPIST,RACIST & FASCIST SO CALLED GODS !!!!!
    Dear Karthikeyan ,
    You are welcome to this open discussion.First of all,we disscus about your good self`s name.Shiv ji and Gauri`s elder son wasKarthikeyan .In north India,he is known as Kartik.Please you tell us what is the significance of his brother Ganasha that he is worshipped as God and why is discarded Kartik by the vaidik aryans ? Why Shiva beheaded Ganesha ? What are the diameters of a man and of a elephant necks.Ganesh is unnatural born person having unnatural head and a mouse as unnatural mode of transportation.Why Gauri disfavoured Kartik and favoured Ganesh in the race of installation for the seat of spiritual authority ? I think that an inefficient,recommendatory and unnatural person is worshiped as Ganesha God .Can a brahimin meritorious doctor plant a head of elephant on man`s neck in the operation theatre ? The brahmin intellectuals invented the proverb ” shri Ganesh.” which means to start a work.There is wrong start of brahmins.We demand the intellectuals to open the case of spirtual authority of Ganesha and kartik so that our bent of mind may be accordingly.
    You wrote,” I do not think that is not a true anger of an opperresd class.This a propoganda with vested interesrs in mind.” Only the bearer knows where the shoe pinches.” RSS projects CHHATARPATI SHIVA JI as HINDU HERO.The brahmins of Maharashtra refused to place TILAK on his forehead at the time of his coronation.A Ghag Bhatt brahmin of Varanasi took Rs. one crore as bribe to place just a tilak on Shiva ji`s forehead.The brahmin community boycotted Pt. Ghag Bhatt.He had to write a book to gave clarification that he had not placed tilak on Shiva ji`s forehead by his hand`s thumb.He wrote that he placed tilak by his foot`s thumb.This means that the entire brahmin community was anti a shudra Shiva ji`s coronation as a king.This means also that they were pro Aurangzeb Muslim king.How did the brahmin peshwas of Shiva ji dethroned his descendat and crushed his head by the elephant`s foot.. Had ever past and modern brahmins condemned these fascist acts ? Why not ? What do you mean by a true anger ? Do you mean bloodsheds ?
    Once RSS worker told me that revolution would not come in India. I replied that your scriptures advised you to rape chamar and kumhar women to get the benefit of Allahabad ( Paryag ) and Varanasi pilgrimage.Now a Chamar caste Ms Mayawati CM of your cow belt tied a wrist band on her brahmin BJP ministers.Now these brahmins had to consider a Chama caste lady as their sister ! IS THIS NOT A SOCIO- RELIGIOUS NON-VIOLENT REVOLUTION ? That RSS worker is no more .ONE DAY GOVT. WILL BAN ON UNCULTURED BRAHMIN`S WORSHIPING AND GLORIFYING DOME RAPIST.RACIST AND FASCIST SO CALLED GODS AS THE GOVT.BANNED UNTOUCHABILITY CREATED BY THE UNCULTURED BRAHMINS.THESE WRITINGS WILL BE FOUNDATION STONE ! Thanks.

  146. Dilip C Mandal said

    hi mr h/respected manjushaji (May 20, 2008 @ 10:00 am/May 23, 2008 @ 6:00 am )

    oft-repeated counteractions of anti-reservationist, is that only the well off sections of reserved category corners all the benefits. it is a glaring truth that even after 60 yrs of reservation policy being in place only 5 % of target population has benefited. if one were to remove so called “better off” individuals also then who would be left to benefit from it?

    does an uneducated laborer’s barely literate son would make it to institute like IIMs, IIT, AIIMS specially given the minimum qualifying percentage?

    reservation was never meant as a tool for individual’s emancipation but rather of whole marginalized population.

  147. Ishveshwariah said

    To Mandal,
    The really meretorious should get the seat. If only 5% are filled then there is a strong reason why the reservation policy has failed and needs to be scrapped. If the same 5% rich people avail of reservation what is the point.

    To Sundarm,
    I think some of the points you made will come into effect in the coming years. Why should education be controlled by the government. Why should they ration it to people based on caste. Lets hope the modern elearning and private sector universtites and colleges get their acts together and discredit the government bodies sooner. I can also see this happening already and just wish it godspeed.

  148. Dilip C Mandal said

    Ishveshwariah,

    what is merit without opportunities? imagine yourself as a dalit living in a poor remote village and you will understand the importance of affirmative action. almost all democratic countries in the world practice affirmative action for the deprived section of the society.

    can you imagine that in haryana villages, dalit girls are asked to clean the floor of the classroom. They have to come early to school. and this is 21st century INDIA! can your sister excel in such scenario? if yes, then there is no need for reservation in India.

  149. Saripu said

    Why are people talking against Brahmins in thsi site. It seems to me it comes from a deep seated inferiority complex.

  150. Ishweshwariah said

    To Dilip Mandal

    You are trying to justify the rich people of Dalit caste to get the sops from the government by quoting some very unjust acts on poor people. If dalit girls are asked to clean floors in the classroom that is extremely inhuman and that issue should be dealt as per the legal guidelines. How is this related to the reservation in AIMS or engineering orand medical colleges. You are mixing things up just to justify why some people (quite rich and socially mobile by many standards ) who are bracketed as dalits should avail of unncessary reservations. The real problem is elsewhere which you fail to see.

  151. Dilip C Mandal said

    Ishweshwariah,

    The select elite of this country has appropriated the resources of India since time immemorial and they are reluctant to let go of their privilege. Indian state has been a failure as far as upliftment of poor and disadvantaged section of society is concerned. The disparity has only widened since independence.

    Reservation was only one of the mechanism of integration and upliftment of historically disadvantaged section. As caste was the basic mechanisms of subjugation in India, it was adopted as the criterion for identifying sections requiring special safeguards. Moreover in absence of other easily identifiable markers it became the sole identifying criterion

  152. Karthikeyan said

    Chumber Ji, you have good grasp of Hindu scriptures. Then why is it difficult for you to understand that Lord Ganesha’s murthy is to be taken phylosophically rather than ridiculing it? And Ganesha, not Karthik, is the eldest son of Shiva and Parvathi Devi. Shiva beheading Ganesha, then Ganesha getting elephant head, all have phylosophical significance and a message to the world. This is called ‘Thiruvilaiyaadal’ in Tamil. And the significance of Ganesha is, he’s the remover of obstacles. Ganesha was born to free the worlds from the evil deeds of Mooshikasura, whom Ganesha doesn’t kill but conquers. Then Mooshikasura gets the honour of being Lord Ganesha’s vehicle.
    It is ridiculous to say that a Brahmin accepted RUPEES one crore to put tilak on Chatrapathi Shivaji. Which RBI governor had signed the rupee notes he had recieved? Shivaji’s period was the age of kingdoms, and the currency was not standard. They were in the form of copper coins, silver coins or gold coins or other metal coins. One crore rupees!! Chanceless story!!
    It is clear from your comment that YOU said to the RSS worker that Hindu scriptures advised Hindus to rape some people. All scriptures, Manu-smruthi, the four Vedas etc were heard by sages by their spiritual ears and where passed down to us in the form of Shruthi and Smrithi. Nobody composed it, and so there is no room for existence of any evil in those scriptures, which can arise only in the minds of uneducated mortals.

  153. Karthikeyan said

    Chumber Ji, I haven’t read the book you have mentioned in the comment. But I know a bit of Kabir Das’s life. Kabir Das had a tough time in Varanasi because his behavior was not in sync with the day-to-day life style of that place. He had to reply to the people around him who questioned him and ridiculed him for his unacceptable behaviour. He used books for that. Thats all. Kabir Das was disciple of Ramanandh, a Brahmin. So it is not possible that he condemns all Brahmins. He had developed his own phylosophies, inspired by many Guru’s, including Brahmin Guru’s. He finds that the world around him is not in sync with his philosophies. Because of this differences, the surroundings questioned him, and he questioned the surroundings. It was brahmins around him, so Brahmins were the victim. If it were others, they would be. He used his poems to just counter argue Brahmins and to spread his new philosophies and to revive the people around him from their ignorance. So it is not appropriate to treat his books and teachings as against entire Brahmin community.

    Untouchability was banned on the same ground as Zamindari system was banned. Both were evil, so they were banned. So are child marriage, sati system etc. We have constitutional right to follow any religion and hence the right to worship the God’s of that religion. Infact our country is respected in the international forums only because of our diverse culture, and yet unity, acceptance, tolerance and fraternity among different people. We, as fellow citizens, have the unwritten duty to respect each others ideology’s without contempt. And this Brahmins had always been doing. You should also treat Brahmins with the same courtesy.

  154. Karthikeyan said

    Also you are telling,
    1. If you worship Vishnu, you are uncultured.
    2. If you worship Vishnu, Government will punish you.
    3. Government will punish you if you worship Vishnu.

    What are you trying to do? Are you trying to terrorise Brahmins by means of threat and spoil their great culture? This might work for other unlearned mobs, not on learned Brahmins.

    Also you are trying to build hatred between Chamars and Brahmins by telling that Brahmins are here to insult the others’ women? Do you think anybody will stop and patiently ask the Brahmins ‘is it true?’ and try to understand the truth? Won’t they instantly get enraged with the statement and engage in violence? Is this what you want? Else why would you put such a baseless statement.

  155. C,L.CHUMBER said

    SLAVES CAN NOT LOVE THEIR MASTERS !!!!!

    Respected Karthikeyan,
    I respect you from the core of my heart but I also hate you equally when you defends the dome rapist,racist and fascist so called Gods.Dr.Ambawdekar wrote to create immense sharpness between love and hate in your views and actions to mark sharp impressions ! Why do the brahmins hate the STs,SCs,OBCs and religious minorities ? Which Hindu scripture preach to love these people.? Do you lit the fire the scriptures which advocate the raping women ? We will tell the names.of the scriptures If you will not dare to burn ,we will dare to burn these so called scriptures.This is up to you to be a Voltaire or a” PONGA PANDIT ” !
    You wrote,” We have the right to follow any religion and hence the right to worship”.( May28,2008 @ 8.55pm ).Do you have the constitutional and ethical right to worship a rapist,racist and fascist.? The untouchability was also a Hindu religious practice which the constitution banned. I do not terrorise the brahmins by demanding the ban on TERRORIST GODS .I am a clear hearted ,true-God fearing and law abiding citizen of the universe.I have already cleared that I neither hate brahmins nor Hinduism.I deadly hate their missdeeds .I have also cleared that I equally hate those who do not retaliate to get their rights as human beings.
    The book under reference is ” Kabir-selected couplets from the sakhi in transversion” by Dr.Mohan Singh Karki ( M/S Motilal BanarsidassPublishers Pvt.Ltd.,41,U.A. Bungalow Road,Jawahar Nagar,New Delhi-110007,2001AD.).Swami Ramanand was not guru of Adi-Guru Kabir.If you claim then why not you follow Kabir..In the Guru Granth Sahib ( Kartarpuri Birh -copy compiled by Guru Arjun Dev) ,Guru Kabir said ,” Rama is my father-in-law and I am His son-in-law.The person who worship Rama ,is a dog and will go to the hell.” Are you a follower of Rama or Kabir ? I am a follower of Adi-Guru Kabir who hates the brahmins and Hinduism .My statements are not baseless, baseless are your logics which may be challenged in the court. SLAVES CAN NOT LOVE THEIR MASTERS.THANKS

  156. Philip John said

    i am an African American.All I wanna say is this that Brahman and other Hindu cast faggots,racist,punk bastards and Aryan son of bitches can try their best to brainwash and attack us Africans(blacks),they will never be able to succeed in their infidel beliefs and racist ideology.

  157. C,L.CHUMBER said

    JUDICIOUS MINDS CAN SOLVE THE INDIAN PROBLEMS !!!!!

    Dear Karthikeyan ,
    Your good self wrote ( May 28,2008 @ 8.23 pm ) as under :-
    ” it is ridiculous to say that a Brahmin accepted RUPEES one crore to put tilak on Chatrapathi Shivaji. Which RBI governor had signed the rupee notes he had recieved? Shivaji’s period was the age of kingdoms, and the currency was not standard. They were in the form of copper coins, silver coins or gold coins or other metal coins. One crore rupees!! Chanceless story!! ”
    Dear Karthikeyan ! this is historical fact .Pt. Gagh Bhatt received one crore currency of that times.You may read historical books on Shiva ji to confirm it.This is true that the brahmins were against the shudra king Shiva ji because he was an ardent follower of a shudra Sant Tuka Ram who was agaist brahminism..They finished his dynasity and established the Peshwa ( Brahmins ) kingdom by crushing the head of his last predecessor with the foot of an elephant ! In Pune ,the capital of the Peshwas , the untouchables wrer banned to enter.Is it not true ? A brahmin of Pune killed the third class ( Varna ) Hindu rashtarpita of India. Why did they( brahmins ) kill a non-violent prominent person ?
    Mr. Karthikeyan , please have judicious mind to solve the Indian problems .Please do not defend the misdeeds of any person or community.

  158. happyhindu said

    Thankyou Karthikeyan. Your writing is bang on target and much admired.

    Chumber,
    Kabirdas was a kriya yogi, and part of hinduism, not opposed to it. Stop spreading baseless lies.

    I worship Vishnu. Even worse for you, i am a Hari dasi and a servant of Shriman Narayana. Please complain to the government. I want to see in what way they punish me.

  159. hh said

    Your abandam lies will not work online. Neither will they work offline soon.

  160. C,L.CHUMBER said

    GOVT.WILL PUNISH IF MR.HAPPY HINDU @ LAVNYA WILL RAPE A LADY LIKE RAPIST VISHNU WHO RAPED PIOUS ADI-MATA VARINDA @ TULSI !!!!!
    Dear Happy Hindu @ Lavnya ji ,
    Your goodself continue to glorify a rapist , racist and fascist as God.You wrote (June 1, 2008 @ 1:58 pm ) as under :-
    ” I worship Vishnu. Even worse for you, i am a Hari dasi and a servant of Shriman Narayana. Please complain to the government. I want to see in what way they punish me.” I think you have lost patience and is challenging the constitution.The constitution allows you religious freedom but not to glorify and worship the rapist ,racist and fascist person living or dead .You may consult your advocate .The govt. will punish you according to the law of the land if you rape a lady as your God Vishnu raped pioos Mata Varinda !
    Dear Happy Hindu ! you threatened me in writing in your email :-
    ” Your abandam lies will not work online. Neither will they work offline soon.”
    You have no logic .Please refrain from dialogue and worship your GODS .Thanks .

  161. hh said

    People everywhere are becoming more and more communicative and well-informed. Dunno why you see this as threatening.

    Anyways, i agree with you Chumber. Its time to move on.

  162. Kavish Tamble said

    Mr V.T. Rajashekar has denounced Dalit Nation in the latest issue of Dalit Voice. He has claimed that Dalit Voice and Dalit Nation has no relationship. Editor please clarify.
    Read for yourself:
    http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/june2008/reports.htm

    —————————————————————-
    Dr. Kavish Tamble, 1192-E Calavares Blvd, Milpitas, CA-955035, USA: I am a Dalit from Pune, working in California since ten years and an avid reader of Dalit voice. I admire your dedication to raise the consciousness of Dalits and awareness of Dalit issues to the world diaspora. Recently I saw a website claiming to be inspired by you and they have been writing articles imitating Dalit Voice. It seems to me that these sites are run by upper caste people as most of the people abuse Dalits in their comments. There are many Dalit folks in CA who actually want to know if this site has any relationship to Dalit Voice. The URL of this blog is:

    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/

    In one the articles the editor of this blog has claimed that he has met you in Oxford University in UK. Is this true?

    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/aishwarya-rai-a-victim-of-brahmin-conspiracy/

    I will appreciate if you can respond to this as I feel that there is something wrong and Dalits might get misguided by this ‘Dalit Nation’. The kind momentum you have built up in raising the consciousness is proving to be a big hurdle for the manuwadis hence all these snoopers like Dalitnation. I have read many books published by your Dalit Sahitya Akademy. I stay in the West Coast of US and working as anesthesiologist.

    V.T. Rajashekar
    “Dalitnation” is not ours and we have no connection. Our enemies as rulers of India are powerful snoopers. Being a micro-minority they naturally feel threatened. That is why they are awake all the 24 hours to watch any danger coming from any direction to their very existence. Manuwadis are deeply worried about the danger. So they are always an alert community. I was arrested four times, once jailed in Chandigarh. Passport impounded for 20 years, two attempts on life. All because of fighting them. They killed even their own “Father of the Nation”. But our people are sleeping. Even well placed are not supporting us. Dr. Ambedkar himself died a sad man —

  163. Karthikeyan said

    Chumber Ji, I respect you too very much, and am concerned that you hate me for being a socially responsible follower. What have Brahmins done against all those categories you mentioned above? (BCs, OBCs, STs, Minorities etc.)? Is competing publicly for various jobs and posts against them? If our Vedas and Smriti’s are doing wrong by categorising people as Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras, then what is the constitution doing by categorising people as BCs, OBCs etc? Who will dare to burn the constitution? You might dare to burn our scriptures because we will treat that as a childish act and forgive you. But government would not do the same if you burn the constitution! I give as much respect to our scriptures as I would to the constitution. And with same respect I will treat Chumber-Smriti too! Neither the constitution nor the scriptures were written to crush anybody. They are written for good governance of society and people. I expect the same quality from Chumber-Smriti too. I think, I’m not making a mistake if I take the texts from all of your posts as a gist of Chumber-Smriti. Do you, as an elder and responsible citizen, think that it will qualify as a book which will inspire and guide a harmonious life? I think it is a big NO! These qualities are there in Vedas. I totally do not understand why its meaning is being misrepresented at various forums. You say you are not angry with Brahmins or Hindus. Then on whom are you with? With Maha Vishnu? There are lots of Purana’s where purushottam Maha Vishnu had exterminated numerous rapists, pascists and tyrants. And you call him with those abusive names! Or are you angry with Maryadha Purushotham, Eka pathni vratha Shree Ram? Because he gave up maatha Sita? He did it to value the words of one of shudras! And isn’t that what you exactly want! As much right the constitution gives us to worship any God, it gives us right not to worship any God too. And government is not competent authority to recognise anybody as God. It is people who choose in which for they wish to see God. Some see him as Maha Vishnu, and some as Buddha, some as Zeus, and some even in the form of father and mother! And God doesn’t need government’s approval or licence to show his mercy! Blessed are those who can recognise God in every form. It is folly to consider one form of God to be superior or inferior, or for that matter, even different from another form. We should learn and practice to respect each others’ view points.

  164. Karthikeyan said

    Happy Hindu, we shall not argue or fight here. Just explain every question and complain thrown on us. It is unwise to challenge anybody here because what the opponent wants is the destruction of our peace of mind. And it doesn’t matter to them whether they win or not! We win only as long as we stay calm. You challenged Chumber Ji thus “complain against me, let me see how government punishes me”. Even if the whole parliament votes in your favour and the supreme court declares you as innocent, Chumber Ji still wins because he has destroyed your peace of mind! To some, to win a battle is victory. To some, just pulling some quite person into battle is victory! Haven’t you seen some people unnecessarily ring the calling bell and hide? Haven’t you seen some people blowing horns repeatedly, when it is absolutely unnecessary and pointless? Haven’t you seen some people scratching the paints of a parked car? Do you think they are our enemies? No, they are just disturbances. Only such things is happening on Brahmins and our scriptures. We should not fight them, we should teach them to grow up from this kiddish behaviour. And thanks for your comments on my points :-)
    Sorry for this personal question, do not mind or respond to it if you don’t want to. Is your name Lavanya? Are you Tamil?

  165. hh said

    Kartikeyan,

    Thanks. True we are not supposed to get disturbed. And wish i didn’t. Cannot help feeling disturbed with how things are. They say when a man needs food and water, you cannot talk to him about god, religion, meditation and stuff that is nonsense to him. Am not sure i shd have been doing all this at all — i don’t feel right.

    on the astral plane we are neither names, languages, genders, nationalities, boundries, faces, relationships, etc…hope you don’t mind, names and identities don’t matter..

  166. C,L.CHUMBER said

    WHY WILL I BURN THE INDIAN CONSTITUTION ? ? ? ? ?
    Dear karthikeyen ,
    You claimed to be ” a socialy responsible follower.” You are neither social nor resposible .You are manuwadi-socialist and your resposobility is to defend as well as worship the rapist,racist and fascist as Gods .We will burn your un-constitutional scriptures and will publish the humanistic literature in varnacular languages . Will you dare to distribute the manu-smirity in the masses as the Christians distribute tbe Bible free of cost ? Every one likes the fragrance and no one likes the maldour !
    You wrote ( June 5, 2008 @ 7:26 pm) as below : –
    ” I give as much respect to our scriptures as I would to the constitution. And with same respect I will treat Chumber-Smriti too! Neither the constitution nor the scriptures were written to crush anybody. They are written for good governance of society and people. I expect the same quality from Chumber-Smriti too. I think, I’m not making a mistake if I take the texts from all of your posts as a gist of Chumber-Smriti. Do you, as an elder and responsible citizen, think that it will qualify as a book which will inspire and guide a harmonious life? I think it is a big NO ”
    You can not mantain double standard in a democratic society .The Indian constitution and your scriptures are north pole and south pole.The Indian constitution was drafted and implemented to defuse your scriptures`varna/caste system spirit. I regard the Indian costitution drafted by Dr.Ambawdekar.Why will I burn the constitution ? As far concerned with the CHUMBER-SMRITY,there will not be added even a single word except my editorial.I will only change the gradation and degradation of Manu-Smirity from Brahmin,Kshattry,Vaish,Shudar to Shudra,Vaish,Kshattry and Brahmin in my CHUMBER-SMIRTY to realize the Brahmins,” SOCHO KABHI AISA HO TO KYA HO ? ” !!!!!
    You continued to wrrote,”He (Rama banished Sita-chumber)did it to value the words of one of shudras! And isn’t that what you exactly want! As much right the constitution gives us to worship any God, it gives us right not .” Rama killed Shudra saint Shambuk and banished his wife Sita .Rama did not gave chances to both to gave clarifications .There was no appeal , advocate and reasoning in Ram-rajya .The Ram-rajya was a Manu-rajya in practice ! Ram and Sita both suicided .( pl read the uttra-kand of Valmiki ramayna).
    Mr. Karthykeyen ! you are not authorised to worship a rapist/racist/fascist as God.You may consult your advocate.You wrote,” We should learn and practice to respect each others’ view points.” The views must be rational based on equality,liberty and fraternity ! THANKS.

  167. Karthikeyan said

    I’m not any this-ist or that-ist Chumber Ji. Who am I to defend God. My prayers to God will defend me and keep me away from bad habits, bad company and inspire me lead a disciplined life. The point is as simple as this. Don’t give me any such title, I might not deserve one. Even my parents never asked me to “read Bhagvat Gita”, “read Valmiki Ramayana” or “read Veda”. You are asking me to do. I’m really happy. If at all my parents had said, I might have refused to do so, labelling them as “boring”, “long” or with “i’m busy”. Had you not told us, I wouldn’t know what Manusmriti is.

    I wouldn’t distribute Manusmriti or any scriptures to the masses because I’m afraid I might not be the right person to do it. I haven’t practiced disciplinedly many of the rites that I am supposed to. The beauty of our scriptures is its passage through inheritence through family or Guru-Shishya parampara. The hymns and words of the scriptures are very powerful, I must be pure first myself to preach that to others. However I wouldn’t deny the education in the scriptures to anybody, irrespective of their caste creed or religion. But I expect them to give due respect to their learning and to me as a teacher. I wouldn’t teach, atleast scriptures, to anybody who wouldn’t respect me or my ideals.

  168. Karthikeyan said

    Ok hh, thanks for valuing my comments again. I’ll treat you as an astral being. Hope you’ll keep reading the comments. I’m happy that I have one regular subscriber to my publishings. Your views and constant encouragement will inspire me to write more.

  169. C,L.CHUMBER said

    KARTHYKEAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHUMBER-SMIRITY IDEA !!!!!

    Dear Karthykean ,
    Your good self wrote ( June 9, 2008 @ 5:37 pm ) as below :-
    ” Your views and constant encouragement will inspire me to write more..”
    I appreciate you and Mr.Lavnya for firm stand for rapists,racists and fascists for which you can not convince the coming generation .You are committed to your dead past as the monkey carries his/her dead child until it torn out into pieces.Actually you manuwadis know the merits/demerits of your religion and Gods but you make the masses fool.You being a teacher must be rational but you and your team is not.. Your behaviour compelled me to the idea of the CHUMBER-SMIRITY for which I am thankful to you and your team.I will dedicate it your team.Thanks.

  170. Human said

    CHUMBERji,
    I really dont think you are part a low caste,you seem to be an paid Ambassader of Christianity,so for you have told much about Hindu religion.

    To other people,
    Do you really think caste system will be eradicated when change to christianity
    Never ..now there are christian nadars,this wont help…
    I agree there was some misinterpretation of Work system as caste system and untouchability was introduced in society after 17 th century.
    This is very bad thing happened in the country…and we know lot of people such as Saint .Ramanuja,Vivekanadha,Gandhiji,Ambedgarji and a very lot of saints and persons were working against Caste system.
    what exactly happened,
    the Varna system was of only four division that too was interchangeable..this is only for the convience of good management of the country.
    here you should make note that the caste system was Interchangeable….

    Later due to invasion of foreign land hoppers such as christian english,muslim Arabs invaded india and we lost our control..
    here also you have to make note of what Lord macalay told about indian wealth and education of every indian in parliament…
    during last few centuries Slowly this misinterpretations happened and people started ill treating people…Have you ever heard of ‘Guhan’/Sabari character in Ramayana..and it will be unending problem till we eradicate caste system by bringing the culture back…Hindus have to unite together to eradicate caste system and bring india superpower in all ways..we should not encourage this kind of foreign paid Ambasseders such as christian missionaries and Arabs who are trying to capture country in cunning ways…we should realise and unite together…please know more about Ambedgarji ,Vivekanadaji and Ramayana…

  171. Karthikeyan said

    Chumber Ji, I and my religion is not for either standing firm or rejecting outright any idea. I’m for considering all ideas equally and putting it into practice wisely. You have something to say? You’re welcome. Didn’t I welcome the idea of Chumber-Smrithi? When a person gave Gandhi Ji a bunch of paper containing mockery poems about Gandhi Ji, he took and kept the attached pins and clips for his use and threw away the trash papers! Similarly, I pledge you that I will surely follow anything in Chumber-Smrithi that is in alignment with my life-style and ideals. The rest will automatically to to trash. I and my religion can endure any attack. Because I understand the truth. I’m telling this really politely and meekly. There is no challenge, no bet. No defence, no threat. I’m not a religious leader. I’m just a follower. So I don’t have to mix and gulp down all of the texts in the scriptures. Just because I don’t know much about the scriptures, I don’t have to believe whatever you say about them. I can distinguish right from wrong and good from bad. Still be assured that I’ll take all the good advice you might give.

  172. C,L.CHUMBER said

    MR.HUMAN DON`T TALK LIKE A INHUMAN !!!!!
    Dear Human ,
    This is not your legal name.Please produce documents in support of your name.Your good self wrote (June 11, 2008 @ 8:04 am) ,” CHUMBERji,
    I really dont think you are part a low caste,you seem to be an paid Ambassader of Christianity,so for you have told much about Hindu religion.”
    I was the Tehsil Welfare Officer at 18 and I resigned that post at 21 because I could not compromise with the corrupt system .I went to my director and said ,” I am going on leave.I will not come to you again .” Once I produced a T.A. bill , the brahmin accountant demanded bribe.I torn out the bill and never claimed TA.I left that job and did the marketing for a largest non banking saving company of India having H.Q. at Kolkatta.I was sanctioned advance to purchase a car within two years.At the age of 24,I was one of the rich persons of my distt. level city.At 27,I entered in journalism to highlight the problems of the masses and enlighten them.
    My one canal plot in urban estate was canceled as I wrote in my magazine that a Punjab`s minister`s father had alliance with Muslim League to extend the boundary of India up to Delhi.I speeched against that minister and he lost next election.I contested the assembly election .I was threatened by the D.S.P. on behalf another minister against whom I contested.Next election ,we planned to dislodge that party.Now the both ministers are ex MLAs and no govt.of their party.
    Mr.Human you blamed me baseless,TRUE GOD will teach you a lesson soon.Thanks..

  173. hh said

    Karthikeyan,

    Yes you are being read and appreciated. Thanks for continuing.

    Reg rishis, made mistakes in communication, not communicating properly ..didn’t relaize implications until it was pointed out..and now feeling guilty as hell.

    Need to sort myself inside out first and therefore refraining from posting religion.

  174. mesquiteice said

    Friends,

    Answer this honestly “ Do you think people calling you some name makes you a physically/mentally challenged person?” Do you think some body thinking of you as a downtrodden person makes you downtrodden”

    Imagine a guy calling you blind. Do you immediately lose your eyesight. It is only if “you” believe you are blind then you cannot see. Nothing outside can prevemt you see this beautiful world.

    Friends, Backwardness is not in the body. It is in the mind. The power is within.

    I find it amazing that the physically/mentally challenged do not feel themselves as backward as some of the people who have strong body and a sound mind.

    Get out of reach of people who say that you are a deprived group. In what way are they different from you. All that people can do is make some money out of your emotion or get some political mileage.

    Please understand that nobody will help you. The moment they know you are weak they will try to use your weakness. All the so called people who claim to be working for your upliftment are actually not. You have to decide.

    The decision to be Backward or Forward is entirely with you. You are on the verge of changing your world and your future generations. Think about it.

    If you have decided to be backward, no religion can get you forward. Once you decide to go forward, then the religion doesn’t really matter.

    It is really pathetic to see people fighting to be called backward. What a pity. These guys have no belief in themselves. In fact even if they want to believe in themselves, the leader of the group will not allow them.

    Liberate yourself. Don’t cry like a baby. GROW UP MAN!

    Be Strong and Be Happy.

  175. James said

    Upper cast Hindus are using Dalits to increase their numbers. They have no sympathy towards them. Due to BR Ambedkar and many other Dalit reformist dalits are enjoying the reservation. These upper casts oppress all the minorities and blasfaming the minorities. By doing these things they have captured all the resources.

    Take pledge not to become fools by these miscreants.

  176. sushmita said

    hehehehhe…. this is one of the most hilarious posts ever… why don’t you losers try asking aishwarya whether she belongs to a backward much less suppressed class. i am sure she’ll kick you out as you deserve to be. i am an uppercaste person who is very proud of that. for all the talk talk and talk that you people do, expecting handouts like beggars from the government, private businesses and foreign aid, you don’t deserve anything more than scavenging as your forefathers used to do. and for all the holier tahn thou attitude, if you ahve the guts try and read arun shourie’s ‘worshipping false gods’ where he does nothing except quote people and thereby points out poor ambedkar’s real intentions. even with all the reservations and bits and pieces that are thrown at you people, there will never be any real power or economic strength to people who expect things for free. look anywhere its only and only and only the forward castes that rule. and it will be so till all eternity.

    so long lousy people, you really are a shame to the real dalits who work hard to prosper in life.

  177. C,L.CHUMBER said

    THERE ARE NEITHER UPPER CASTES NOR LOWER CASTES !!!!!
    Dear James,
    Your good self said (June 28, 2008 @ 5:23 am ),” These upper castes oppress all the minorities and blasfaming the minorities. By doing these things they have captured all the resources.Take pledge not to become fools by these miscreants.” There is no upper caste and no lower caste .The Brahmins,Kshatriya , vaish and shudra are graded and degraded varnas .The caste/tribes are only in shudra varna.The shudras are not Hindus.The untouchables`movements e.g.Adi-dharam Mandal,Adi-hindu,Adi-dravida,Adi-andhra ,Adi-karnatka,Namo-shudra and many more in modern period and the Bhakti movement of medieval period denounced Hinduism and its Gods.Dr.Ambawdekar also denounced the Hinduism and embraced the Buddhism.You had rightly said,”Upper caste Hindus are using Dalits to increase their numbers.” WE took pledge to fight brahminism with teeth and nails.PLEASE ASK THE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS/COLLEGES/INSTITUTIONS TO RESERVE 50% SEATS FOR CHRISTIANS AS THE PB.AND HRY. HIGH COURT VERDICT WHEN THE SIKHS IMPLEMENTED.

  178. mesquiteice said

    Chumber Ji, Well Said

    James Ji, Dalit Nation Ji and all others,

    WHO IS OPRESSING YOU? Is somebody stopping you from doing business. Is somebody stopping you from inventing new technology. Is somebody stopping you from coming up. The anwer is NO. But you want to cry for nothing.

    There are only 2 castes Male (and) Female. Girls will not marry people because of caste. They will marry you only if you are a MAN. ( MEN dont cry. Men are strong) Girls are not matters of politics. I am pained that you can take so lowly about girls as though they are your private property. You think girls are like your tail is it? arent you ashamed to ask for girls on the basis of cast. We should try to be Role Models not beggars to get a girl.

    Actually I feel, such possessive people are not worthy of any girl, atleast not aishwarya. What kind of People are you.

    I am sorry to tell this to you in public, but i have to. You are a crier. you want to be oppressed. Even thought you have a chance to come out of oppresstion you are choosing to be oppressed.

    Dont listen to political people. Do your best and see the results instead of crying. Are you a baby?

    I agree that this is a tough time. But unless we fight out tough times, we cannot come up. If you keep on calling yourself as “OPPRESSED” you are oppressing not only yourself by your entire family. You are spoiling the future of india because of your politics.

    Let us fight the EVIL of caste system and dont ever call youself oppressed. Do you know a guy without both his legs is planning to win olympics medal. We should be ashamed about ourselves.

    Be strong Be Happy

  179. Amarnath said

    I am a bunt. I am living a bunt life

    The readers are requested to look at the social status of bunts in the coastal karnataka area. There is plenty for you all to google. No doubt there exists casteism in India. But bunts form one of the powerful groups who dominate agriculture in that region. I will not agree for bunts being called oppressed. If you call bunts oppressors, I will agree to it…………. to some extents.

    Calling bunts oppressed is ridiculous.

    The author of this article, or the source of the author’s information either has mal intentions or is extremely mis informed.

  180. Amarnath said

    By the way.

    Unlike what is claimed in the above article, V T Rajashekar is from a the bunts community, but that community is in no way opressed.

    Read about V T Rajashekar
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V._T._Rajshekar

    it says “He is himself not a Dalit, he is the son of late P.S. Thimmappa Shetty, who retired as the Collector of South Kanara District. He belongs to the well-known Vontibettu Beedu family belonging to the higher caste Bunt community”

    ridiculous………. absolutely ridiculous article.

  181. Gagan said

    I am a bunt. And anyone who thinks bunts are dalits can kiss my a**. God! I have missed so much on reservations!! If I knew that I was a dalit, may be I could have had all the freebies that come with it.

    Bunts are descendants of Greeks and came to India couple of millennium ago.

  182. C,L.CHUMBER said

    MANUWADIS STRUGGLE TO MAKE ABORIGINAL INDIANS ” WEAK AND UNHAPPY”
    Dear Mesquiteice ,
    Your good self said (July 7, 2008 @ 12:17 pm ) ,”Let us fight the EVIL of caste system and dont ever call you self oppressed. Do you know a guy without both his legs is planning to win olympics medal. We should be ashamed about ourselves.Be strong Be Happy.”
    First of all , we must get rid of superiority or inferiority complex .The manuwadis are anti-India that is why they as rulers failed to fetch Gold medals.They send Arjuna players and Pandit Daronacharya / Krishna as coaches .The do not allow Eklavvyas in the Olympics due to their manuwadi bent of mind .The other countries send Eklavvyas of their countries .WE fail to win medals due to Pandit Daronacharya coach who do not prefer merit .Krishna in his Gita abuses women of all varnas,Vaish and Shudras men and women by declaring them inauspiciou . WE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF WHO DO NOT CONDEMN THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS GODS AND THEIRS FOLLOWERS .UNLESS WE FINISH THIS SYSTEM WE CAN NOT BE STRONG AND HAPPY .

  183. Amarnath said

    I congratulate V T Rajshekar again and wish him all the best in his endeavors in bringing equality amongst us.

    India needs more sons like him.

    Owner of this blog/site, pl. do not delete my wishes to Rajshekar, like you did last time. Please do not delete my posts expressing my wish to do away with any kind of discrimination in my country. It does not bode well of your intentions.

  184. Karigowda said

    I think VTR is far greater than ambedkar in his thoughts. Ambedkar is no match to him. He was just a british ass licker.

  185. mesquiteice said

    Chumber Ji,

    Normally I do not comment about stories. However, since you are so passionate about stories and believe in stories more than reality itself, please note that one of the allegation that have been raised is that Ekalavya learned all the archery skills by secretly observing the training sessions of Dronacharya. When Dronacharaya found out, he visited Ekalavya to verify his suspicions. Ekalavya itself knew that he should not have done like this and therefore requested Drona to pardon him. Although Drona could have demanded an even greater punishment under the laws in effect at that time, he asked only for Ekalavya’s right thumb, thus making useless the archery skills which he had learned secretly.

    Do you know which is true and which is false? Whether you believe it of not all these are stories?

    I do not see any reason in blaming someone else for your failure today? Were you stopped from running in the olympics. You want to simply sit and expect that olympics medal should be given ..

    More over you have not answered my question about why girls should marry only their own caste which i suppose this discussion is about. Why not others?. Who is dalit nation to tell a girl whom to marry and whom not.

    If you don’t want to eat food today just because you were hungry yesterday. So be it.

    You also have the option to continue to go without food for the next one year, since you had to go hungry on many occasions in the last one year.

    If you are not able to be strong and happy, I can’t help it. Be Weak Be Sad

    atleast let others Be Strong and Be Happy

  186. C,L.CHUMBER said

    KARIGOWDA HAVE NO COMMON SENSE !!!!!
    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr./Mrs. Karigowda said (July 10, 2008 @ 9:06 am) ,” I think VTR is far greater than ambedkar in his thoughts. Ambedkar is no match to him. He was just a british ass licker.”
    Karigowda have no common sense that Dr.Ambedkar and Mr.V.T.Rajsekhar are neither contemporaries nor opponents .Mr.Rajshekar is admirer of Dr. Ambedkar .Dr.Ambawdekar was neither an ass nor British licker.
    He was bestowed by the Indian Govt.with the title BHARAT RATTAN posthumously ! He was the first law minister of Indian Republic .He drafted the Indian Constitution .The Brahmins found him fit for son-in-law ! Adi-guru Kabir said : -
    AN ASS`S BETTER THAN A BRAHMIN , A DOG`S BETTER THAN ALIEN GOD !

  187. Siddhartha said

    Oh, come on! Do you seriously think Brahmins have enough co-ordination to carry out a conspiracy? They’re all too busy trying to be clean anyway.

    There’s no bloody conspiracy. Please occupy yourself with ways to improve the Dalit community. Not identifying an imaginary enemy. Agreed, the Brahmins have it better. That doesn’t mean they’re only occupation is holding us back.

    This is shameful.

  188. C,L.CHUMBER said

    WORSHIPING RAPISTS,RACISTS AND FASCISTS GODS IS REALLY SHAMEFUL !!!!!
    BUT SHARAM TUM KO KEON AATI NAHIN !!!!!

  189. Krishna said

    My Gods are neither rapists, racists nor fascists.

    They portray life as it can be. They live life in every situation, every emotion as it can be.

    They show how i can live – both as evil and as good.

    And then they guide from ignorance to light.

    The choice is left to me how i decide to take it.

    All strories have an ending.

    You are picking only the middle portions of the story to suit your anger.

  190. mesquiteice said

    CHUMBER JI and all others,

    Do you understand at least now (based on what krishna has said)that you are in fairy land thinking that stories are real.

    Come out and face truth. Dont be shy. After all everybody is a human(whether fascists, rapists or racists) and we are all part of the same ecosystem.

    HATE SIN, NOT THE SINNER. One we get this into our heads, this world will become a better place to live for all of us.

  191. Karthikeyan said

    I have one question. This blog is titled “Dalit Nation”. How will be the reaction if there were a blog called “Brahmin Nation” or more generally “Hindu Nation” ? Is it fair to link a community or group name with nation? I think it is unfair in a secular multi cultural country. Your comments are welcome.

  192. Karthikeyan said

    Someone said “worshipping is more shameful, but seeking reservation isn’t”. I wish to ask the public how enjoying freebies in the name of reservation is more respectable than worshipping God in accordance to one’s own religion.

  193. c.l.chumber said

    SWAMI ACHHUTANAND AND SHAHID CHANDER SHEKHAR AZAD SOCIAL REVOLUTIONARY !!!!! Dear readers,
    I am on tour to attend th SHAHID CHANDER SHEKHAR AZAD e Swami Achhutanand founder of the Adi-Hindu Maha Sabha`s 75th death anniversarry function as CHIEF GUEST and functions of Shahid Chander Shekhar`s 102nd birth day celebrations at KANPUR ( U.P.).I am one week tour and will reply after 24th instant.Thanks.

  194. kk said

    nobody needs divisive groupism in the name of caste, class or whatever humbug.

    we are all indians first, let us celebrate that.

  195. C,L.CHUMBER said

    BRAHMINS MUST BURN THEIRS SCRIPTURES ADVOCATING DIVISIVE
    GROUPING IN THE NAME OF CASTE , CLASS OR WHATEVER HUMBUG
    TO CELEBRATE THE INDIAN NATIONALISM !!!!!

  196. C,L.CHUMBER said

    HATE SINS AS WELL AS THE SINNERS ! ! ! ! !
    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr. Mesquiteice said ( July 21, 2008 @ 5:49 am ) ,” CHUMBER JI and all others,- – - HATE SIN, NOT THE SINNER. One we get this into our heads, this world will become a better place to live for all of us.” Why did not Brahmins since ancient Vedic period get this into theirs heads to make world a better place to live for non-brahmins ? Practice what you preach .If you hate the malaria disease and love the mosquitoes then how the malaria disease will be cured for ever .Will you do that or the health department.`s suggestions to finish the malaria disease as well as the mosquitoes ?
    Then the every country must disband the army / police to love the internal and external threats to the country .We say ,” HATE SINS AS WELL AS THE SINNERS ! ! ! ! ! “

  197. C,L.CHUMBER said

    ANALYSTS ANALISE EVEN FICTIONS AND NON-FICTIONS !!!!!
    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr. Mesquiteice said (July 11, 2008 @ 10:31 am ) ,” Do you know which is true and which is false? Whether you believe it of not all these are stories? ” An analyst even analise the fictions and non-fictions . If you treat the Eklavya`s sorrows in the Mahabharta a story then why you worship the heroes of fictions .Why did you preach fiction ? Please have a judicious mind .

  198. hh said

    Chumber-ji,

    Itihaasas (ramayan, mahabharat) are not fiction.

    Puranas are not fiction either, but they are exagerrated accounts with some metaphorical stuff in it; and therefore may not be free from some interpolation as well.

  199. mequiteice said

    Dear ChumberJI,

    Please be clarified that no body who has any sense will worship a hero or preach fiction.

    A sensible person will try to become a hero. You are only talking about ekalvya and kabirdas which is not enough. We have to become like them and be a guiding light.

    Please note that we cannot be come great by blaming others and fighting. We can become great by forgiving.

    It may be worth for an analyst who is paid, to analyse fiction and non fiction. For our country and our people who are suffering from hunger, no amount of analysing will help.

    However, since you seem to have a very judicious mind and a deep understanding of the subject, I suggest you analyse the life and works of Subramanya Bharathi.

    If you want to really hit the base, I suggest you analyse Gauthama Buddha and Jesus Christ

    This analysis will help us, not in understanding bharathi and buddha and christ but in understanding ourself.

    As far as your comment that you want to hate sinners, all i can tell you is that we should correct ourselves before finding fault with others. everybody who does make mistakes. The question is wheter you are able to understand it and correct it when you come to know it. Any person who says that he has never done a mistake or sin is either an idiot or hypocrite.

    Please let me know your opinion on DALITNATION’S view that “Girls should marry only those whom the are told to marry? should girls not marry whom they like

  200. Karthikeyan said

    “you hate the malaria disease and love the mosquitoes then how the malaria disease will be cured for ever.”

    Also, you hate the malaria disease and also hate the vaccine that prevents malaria, then how can you escape the risk of malaria. Brahmins are not mosquitoes, they are vaccines.

    “Why did not Brahmins since ancient Vedic period get this into theirs heads to make world a better place to live for non-brahmins ?”

    Vedic Brahmins had everything in their heads and preached what is welfare for entire humanity. The concept of “dalit”, and other words were invented by power hungry politicians and imperialistic foreigners.

    Everyone should respect every others religious feelings unbiasedly to celebrate the Indian Nationalism.

  201. C,L.CHUMBER said

    I WILL NEVER REPLY TO MR. KARTHIKEYAN IRRATIONAL , WORSHIPER AND DEFENDER OF RAPISTS,RACISTS AND FASCISTS GODS . EVERYONE SHOULD HATE EVERY OTHER`S RELIGIOUS FEELINGS BASED ON RAPEISM, RACISM AND FASCISM TO CELEBRATE THE TRUEST INDIAN NATIONALISM AND HUMANISM !!!!!

  202. C,L.CHUMBER said

    WHY NOT RAMA FORGAVE RAVNA ,SITA AND SHAMBUKA ? ? ? ? ?
    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr. Mequiteice said (July 28, 2008 @ 12:54 pm ) ,” Please note that we cannot become great by blaming others and fighting. We can become great by forgiving”
    Then why are the Brahmins worship Rama who did not forgave
    Ravna , Sita and Shambuk ? Why did Rama banish innocent and pious Sita ? Why did Rama kill innocent and pious Saint Shambuk ?
    Why do brahmins worship Parshuram who did not forgave kashattriyas ? Why did brahmins not forgive Muslims for the Babri Masque ? Why did they demolish the Babri Mosque ? Practice what you preach !
    Yes , the Brahmins forgave the rapists , racists and fascists .They not only forgave them but also declared them theirs GODS !!!!! They should be ashamed !!!!

  203. C,L.CHUMBER said

    WHO TELLS THE LIE FOR WHOM ? ? ? ? ?
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    I wrote ( C,L.CHUMBER said,July 25, 2008 @ 1:59 pm ) : – ” If you hate the malaria disease and love the mosquitoes then how the malaria disease will be cured for ever .Will you do that or the health department.`s suggestions to finish the malaria disease as well as the mosquitoes ? ”
    An irrational , worshiper and defender of rapist,racist and fascist Gods( July 28, 2008 @ 5:52 pm ) distorted my above views as below : -
    ” you hate the malaria disease and love the mosquitoes then how the malaria disease will be cured for ever.”
    ” Also, you hate the malaria disease and also hate the vaccine that prevents malaria, then how can you escape the risk of malaria . ”
    WE SHOULD BE JUDICIOUS MINDS NOT DICTATORS TO DISTORT ANOTHER`S VIEWS . THEN THE SPIRIT OF DIALOGUE DIES AUTOMATICALLY AND THE WAR BEGINS WHICH ENDS IN DEATHS OF BOTH SIDES .THE IRRATIONAL PEOPLE QUERLE WHEN THEY LOST LOGIC TO PROVE RIGHT THEM SELVES .WE ARE RIGHT AND OUR FORE FATHERS WERE ALSO RIGHT BECAUSE THEY PREACH EQUALITY , LIBERETY AND FRATERNITY .

  204. mesquiteice said

    Chumber Ji,

    Firstly, I want to reiterate that you are giving so much importance to stories but not to your brothers and sisters ( all Indians)

    PLEASE BE CLARIFIED THAT ANY BODY WHO DOES NOT FORGIVE IS NOT A BRAHMIN! RAMA WAS A KSHATRIYA AND THOUGH PARASURAMA WAS BORN A BRAHMIN HE WAS A kSHATRIYA BY KARMA.

    WHY RAMA DID NOT FORGIVE SITA?

    Rama adhered strictly to his duty both as a king and a husband. These conflicted when society thought that Sita was unfit to become queen. But Rama had to send away Sita since his duty of king came first. He was ready to sacrifice his happiness for the sake of his duty. A legend by Rishi Agastya in the epic states that Vishnu in a previous age had been cursed by a rishi, whose wife had been killed by Vishnu for sheltering his enemies escaping from battle. The Rishi condemns Vishnu to be denied for a long age, the companionship of his soul mate, just as Vishnu, by an inadvertent display of anger, had deprived the rishi of his loving wife. Thus Rama, Vishnu’s incarnation, must live the rest of his life without Sita.

    WHY IS RAMA CONSIDERED GREAT?

    As a person, Rama personifies the characteristics of an ideal person (purushottama) who is to be emulated. He had within him all the desirable virtues that any individual would seek to aspire, and he fulfils all his moral obligations (maryada). Rama’s purity and piety in his intentions and actions inspires affection and devotion for him from a variety of characters from different backgrounds. For example, he gave up his rightful claim to the throne, and agreed to go into exile for fourteen years, to fulfill the vow that his father had given to Kaikeyi, one of King Dashratha’s wives. This is in spite of the fact that Kaikeyi’s son, Bharat, begged him to return back to Ayodhya and said that he did not want to rule in place of Rama. But Rama considered his dharma as a son above that of his own birthright and his life’s ambition. For such supreme sacrifices, and many other qualities, Shri Rama is considered a maryada purushottam. Some of his ideals are as follows:
    1. At the time when it was normal for kings to have more than one wife, Rama gave ideal of having a single wife. After Sita was banished, he was doing penance with a gold statue of Sita. In Balakanda of Valmiki Ramayana it is written that Rama and Sita resided in each others heart.
    2. Rama always followed his promise at any cost. In fact, he went to forest to make his father’s promise to Kaikeyi true. There are many examples of Rama’s promises which he kept. Most important are the promise to sages to save their lives from Rakshasas, getting back Sugreeva’s kingdom, making Vibhishana the king of Lanka.
    3. Excellent friend: Rama had very touching relations with his friends irrespective of their status. Some of his friends are Nishad-raj Guh, King of Nishaads (a caste whose profession was hunting the birds), Sugreeva (the Vanar king) and Vibhishana a Rakshasa

    Source of information: WIKIPEDIA

  205. Karthikeyan said

    “Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.”
    How can I, a mere mortal succeed. Bye friends, I’m stopping commenting here (don’t know if temporarily or permanently) until I get some life out.

  206. C,L.CHUMBER said

    BEWARE OF FOLLOWERS OF RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS AS WELL AS CREATOR,PERSORVER AND FOLLOWER OF VARNA / CASTE SYSTEM TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY WORLD POWER !!!!!

  207. C,L.CHUMBER said

    NEITHER BRAHMA NOR RAM WERE GREAT HUMANITARIANS !!!!!
    THEY BOTH DISCARDED THEIRS WIVES .BRAHMA TRIED HIS BEST TO RAPE HIS OWN DAUGHTER ,THEN GREATEST FEMINIST TRUE BHAGWAN SHIV JI BEHEADED BRAHMA TO SAVE HIS DAUGHTER !!!!!
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    Mr,Mesquiteice said (August 5, 2008 @ 12:48 pm ) ,” Chumber Ji,Firstly, I want to reiterate that you are giving so much importance to stories but not to your brothers and sisters ( all Indians) .”
    MY ANSWER IS : – I HAD ALREADY REPLIED THAT I AM QUOTING FROM YOUR SCRIPTURES .IF THESE ARE STORIES,THEN YOUR SCRIPTURES ARE FICTIONS AND YOUR GODS ARE MYTHOLEGICAL .I PURCHASED A VALMIKI RAMAYNA IN 1976 AD FROM M/S HASANAND & SONS,NEW DELHI IN WHICH THE LAST CHAPTER ” UTTRA KAND ” WAS NOT PUBLISHED.THE PUBLISHER SAID THAT THIS CHAPTER WAS FICTITIOUS .I ASKED HIM THEN HOW YOU CAME TO KNOW ABOUT THE RAM RAJYA WHICH IS RECORDED IN THE”UTTAR KAND ” .HE HAD NO ANSWER .DR. AMBEDKAR WROTE THAT THE BRAHMINS REVISED VALMIKI RAMAYNA 5 TIMES .PLEASE DECIDE YOUR SCRIPTURES ARE FICTIONS OR NOT ? SECOND , WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS ? I AM DOING THIS JOB DAY AN NIGHT FOR MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ( COUNTRY ) AND YOU ARE WORSHIPING , DEFENDING AND GLORIFYING YOUR RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!!
    ( 2 ) PLEASE BE CLARIFIED THAT ANY BODY WHO DOES NOT FORGIVE IS NOT A BRAHMIN ! RAMA WAS A KSHATRIYA AND THOUGH PARASURAMA WAS BORN A BRAHMIN HE WAS A kSHATRIYA BY KARMA.
    MY ANSWER IS : – Your question is irrelevant .Both your Rama Kshattry and Brahmin Parshuram had been discussed many a times in this blog.Please read carefully how they were cruel even towards theirs innocent and pious family members !!!!!
    ( 3 )WHY RAMA DID NOT FORGIVE SITA ? Rama adhered strictly to his duty both as a king and a husband. These conflicted when society thought that Sita was unfit to become queen. But Rama had to send away Sita since his duty of king came first. He was ready to sacrifice his happiness for the sake of his duty. A legend by Rishi Agastya in the epic states that Vishnu in a previous age had been cursed by a rishi, whose wife had been killed by Vishnu for sheltering his enemies escaping from battle. The Rishi condemns Vishnu to be denied for a long age, the companionship of his soul mate, just as Vishnu, by an inadvertent display of anger, had deprived the rishi of his loving wife. Thus Rama, Vishnu’s incarnation, must live the rest of his life without Sita.
    MY ANSWER IS : – RAMA TESTIFIED SITA`S PURITY BY AGANI IN LANKA .THEN HE MUST CAME TO PROTECT SITA AS AN HUSBAND AND A KING. HE NEVER CHARGE SHEETED SITA .HE SAID TO SITA TO ACCOMPANY LAXMAN TO VISIT HOLY PLACES .WHEN IN THE FOREST LAXMAN SAID THAT RAM HAD DESERTED YOU . SHE WEPT VERY BITTERLY AND SHOWED HIS BELLY THAT SHE IS PREGNANT .BUT THE CRUEL DOUBLE BROTHER-IN-LAW ( LAXMAN WAS BOTH JIJA AND DEVAR OF SITA AS SITA`S SISTER WAS MARRIED TO LAXMAN ) OF SITA LEFT HER ALONE .THIS IS THE CHARACTER OF HALF VISHNU ( RAMA ) AND QUARTER VISHANU ( LAXMAN ) .RAMA WAS NEITHER AN IDEAL HUSBAND NOR AN IDEAL KING .HE WAS ONLY THE DARLING OF THE MANUWADI BRAHMINS WHO BESTOWED HIM A TITLE OF INCARNATION OF A RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GOD-VISHANU !!!!!
    FROM WHICH EPIC YOU HAVE THIS VISHANU STORY ? VISHANU RAPED ADI-MATA VARINDA W/O JALANDHAR ( PL.READ DISTT. JALANDHAR GAZETEER ,PADAM PURAN,MOVIE TULSI-VIVAH ).THEN RAMA SHOULD QUIT THE KINGSHIP TO SAVE HIS INNOCENT,PIOUS WIFE SITA AND LAXMAN SHOULD RULE THE AYODYA .WHAT IS THE SPIRITUALITY AND HUMANITY IN RAMA`S DECISION TO BANISH SITA AND MURDERING SHUDAR SAINT SHAMBUK ? ? ? ? ? YOU SHOULD FEEL SHAME IN PROTECTING BANISHMENT OF SITA ? HE MAY SENT HER TO HER PARENTAL KINGDOM .I READ A BOOK OF HINDI WRITERS WHO VISITED SITA`S PARENTAL KINGDOM AREA , THEY RECORDED THAT THERE IS STILL RESENTMENT IN THAT AREA THAT RAMA BANISHED THEIRS PIOUS AND INNOCENT DAUGHTER SITA. SITA`S AREA BIHAR`S MR. LALU PARSHAD YADAV STOPPEDTHE MR.ADVANI1S RAM-RATH.MR.L.P.YADAV IS STILL ACTIVE TO STOP MR.ADVANI.
    ” WHY IS RAMA GREAT ” MR.MESQUITEICE IS ADVOCATING STILL . HE IS DOING MARKETING OF EXPIRY DATE MEDICINE .BEWARE OF EXPIRY DATE MEDICINES AND RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS / CASTE SYSTEM / VARNA SYSTEM TO KEEP FIT YOUR SELF AND YOUR SWEET COUNTRY !!!!!

  208. mesquiteice said

    Karthikeyan Ji,

    Success or Failure is not in our hands. But your fight against stupidity should never stop. As much as you remove stupidity around you, India will become a better place for all of us.

    What will ultimately count is not whether you won or lost, but how much you tried.

    Bhagat Singh/Mahatma Gandhi/Subramanya Bharathi/Rani Laxmibai/Tipu Sultan/Tantia Tope/Chatrapathi Shivaji/Ashoka to name a few lost their lives but their efforts never lost life,it inspired millions of our brothers and sisters to understand that we are one(INDIAN)(There are so many brothers and sisters who are still losing their lives just because of some politically motivated stupidity).

    Ultimately whether stupid of intelligent, arent we all brothers and sisters?

    At this point when our brothers and sisters fail to understand that we are one, it definitely pains us from the heart. Let us hope that they lose their childishness and become sensible.

    Do not mistake me requesting you to comment on this blog if you dont like, All I want to say is “DONT GIVE UP HOPE” because when you give up hope, you are making millions of people give up.

    May the TRUTH ALONE TRIUMPH

    Jai Hind

  209. h3 said

    u guys are lost …. all of us are jus plain human…. fuck yo all

  210. mesquiteice said

    Mr. CHUMBER.

    I SPOKE ABOUT RAMA SINCE YOU ARE THE ONE HARPING ABOUT SUCH STORIES AND THAT TOO IT IS NOT MY OPINION, IT IS FROM A PUBLIC SOURCE AND BASED ON FACTS.

    WHEN I TOLD YOU NOT TO WASTE TIME ON STORIES, YOU TOLD THAT STORIES ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND THAT YOU ARE AN ANALYST IN THESE MATTERS.

    YOU ARE THE ONE FINDING FAULT WITH EVERYBODY ELSE WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING YOUR OWN FOLLY. YOU ARE THINKING THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY GOOD PERSON AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS BAD.

    WHILE YOU ARE ABLE TO TALK SO MUCH BAD ABOUT SOMEBODY, YOU ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT ANY THING WHICH MAY BE GOOD ABOUT IT. THAT IS YOUR ATTITUDE?

  211. Karthikeyan said

    Thanks Mesquitiece Ji,
    Nice finding people whom even I don’t know offering support/advice to me. It was tough to stay at the place where I’m being bashed and thrashed. You can count and see how many times I was attacked personally in this blog. This was kind of tooo much on me and I couldn’t stand. And worst of all, nobody seemed to express any condemnation to such personal attacks in public forum.
    Atleast you are encouraging me to hold on. This makes me feel better.

    Jai Hind!

  212. C,L.CHUMBER said

    I WILL DARE TO DRINK A BOWL OF POISON LIKE SOCRATE BUT I WILL NOT WORSHIP YOUR RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!! I WILL CONTINUE TO EXPOSE YOUR EVIL GODS IN EVERY HOOK AND CORNER OF THE WORLD !!!!
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    MR Mesquiteice said ( August 7, 2008 @ 9:34 am ) said ;-
    Mr. CHUMBER.
    ( 1 ) I SPOKE ABOUT RAMA SINCE YOU ARE THE ONE HARPING ABOUT SUCH STORIES AND THAT TOO IT IS NOT MY OPINION, IT IS FROM A PUBLIC SOURCE AND BASED ON FACTS.
    *****MY ANSWER IS : – I HAD ALREADY REPLIED THAT I AM QUOTING FROM YOUR SCRIPTURES .IF THESE ARE STORIES,THEN YOUR SCRIPTURES ARE FICTIONS AND YOUR GODS ARE MYTHOLOGICAL( C,L.CHUMBER said,August 6, 2008 @ 4:35 pm ).
    ( 2 ) WHEN I TOLD YOU NOT TO WASTE TIME ON STORIES, YOU TOLD THAT STORIES ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND THAT YOU ARE AN ANALYST IN THESE MATTERS.
    *****MY ANSWER IS : – I NEVER CLAIMED THAT I AM THE PERFECT ANALYST OF ANYTHING .
    (3) YOU ARE THE ONE FINDING FAULT WITH EVERYBODY ELSE WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING YOUR OWN FOLLY. YOU ARE THINKING THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY GOOD PERSON AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS BAD.
    ***** MY ANSWE IS : – I JOINED THIS BLOG ON 14-4-2008 A.D. I NEVER FIND A SINGLE BRAHMIN WHO DENOUNCED THE RAPIST,RACIST AND FAST GODS .I AM CRITICISING THESE EVILS.THAT IS WHY YOU ARE BADS AND I AM NOT ONLY GOOD , I AM THE BEST AMONG YOU.YOU WROTE IN FICTITIOUS NAME.WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IN REAL NAME ?
    ( 4 ) WHILE YOU ARE ABLE TO TALK SO MUCH BAD ABOUT SOMEBODY, YOU ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT ANY THING WHICH MAY BE GOOD ABOUT IT. THAT IS YOUR ATTITUDE?
    ***** MY ANSWER IS : – IS THERE MORE BAD TO DEFEND EVILS LIKE RAPISM,RACISM AND FASCISM.WHAT CAN EXPECT NAZIS FROM AN HUMANIST .LIKE ME ? I NEVER WROTE ANYTHING AGAINST YOUR RESPECT UNLESS YOU
    WROTE WRONG . I JUST REPLIED LOGICALLY.YOU ARE SO CALLED UPPER CASTE PERSON , YOU EXPECT FROM ME A SO CALLED LOW CASTE PERSON TO WORSHIP YOUR RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS.I WILL DARE TO DRINK A BOWL OF POISON LIKE SOCRATE BUT NOT TO JOIN YOUR BAD COMPANY !!!!!

  213. h said

    Karthikeyan,

    Knowingly or unknowingly those that are oppressed become the oppressors themselves. Its an unfortunate fact.

    These are people who like to attack the person instead of the viewpoint.
    Forget them. Don’t take them seriously.

    It is the height of foolishness to link the denouncing of Gods with the betterment of SCs and STs. As though their position gets improved not by acquiring skills or education but by ‘denouncing Gods’.

    How to talk to such people. Don’t waste your time over this. Move on to a forum where you may find answers to your questions and find nice people to talk to.

    C ya.

  214. mesquiteice said

    karthikeyan ji,

    you are most welcome.

  215. mesquiteice said

    Mr. chumber

    you said” BEWARE OF EXPIRY DATE MEDICINES AND RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS / CASTE SYSTEM / VARNA SYSTEM TO KEEP FIT YOUR SELF AND YOUR SWEET COUNTRY !!!!!

    Dont take this as a comment. I know it was just a slip of your finger. Please refer to INDIA as OUR SWEET COUNTRY hereafter, I will be glad. Thanks

    Jai Hind

  216. icely said

    what bramin dalit stupid talking all are same people

  217. C,L.CHUMBER said

    UNTOUCHABLES( SCs )ARE NOT HINDUS.THEY HAVE A SEPARATE IDENTITY !!!!!
    -DR.AMBEDKAR IN ” WHAT CONGRESS AND GANDHI
    HAVE DONE TO THE UNTOUCHABLES .”
    *****ACCORDING TO THIS TERMINOLOGY ,HINDUS ARE CALLED SAVARNAS AND OF THE UNTOUCHABLES AS PANCHAMAS .SUCH A TERMINOLOGY COULD NOT HAVE COME INTO EXISTENCE IF SEPARATION HAD NOT BECOME SO PROMINENT AND ITS OBSERVANCE SI NECESSARY AS TO REQUIRE COINING OF SPECIAL TERMS TO GIVE EXPRESSION TO THE FACT .
    *****

  218. Sharath Rao said

    All individuals are responsible for their own deeds and collective guilt is a
    deadly scam. The idea that when a person who is part of some group does
    something bad in history and remote past, all people in that group are responsible is a logical fallacy caused by group thinking – a fallacy that contributes greatly to the evil done in the world.

  219. C,L.CHUMBER said

    STUPIDS DO NOT DIALOGUE , THEY QUARREL WITH EACH OTHERS !!!!!
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    Mr.Icely said ( August 8, 2008 @ 3:07 pm ) , ” what bramin dalit stupid talking all are same people .”
    PLEASE READ THIS QUOTATION : -
    IRON SHARPENS IRON ; SCHOLAR , THE SCHOLAR !!!!! -THE TALMUD

  220. mesquiteice said

    DRINKING HEMLOCK POISON WILL NOT ANY PERSON SOCRATES.
    TRY TO BE LIKE YOURSELF. YOU MAY ACTUALLY BE GREATER THAN SOCRATES

    Dear Brother CHUMBER ,

    Firstly, If you are so particular about names, change the name of this blog which talks bad about our sister “Aishwarya Rai” which is the right of every human. Why are they talking bad about our sister. DONT INSULT OUR SISTERS, THEY WILL MARRY WHOEVER THEY LIKE, WHO ARE YOU TO COMMENT ABOUT IT???

    please dont make fun of my name, I know you have a very good name, but that that does not mean you can abuse me as “FICTITIOUS”. I never told that your name is fictitious (have i ever asked you about your name). PLEASE RESPECT OTHERS EMOTIONS. HAS INDIAN CONTITUTION BANNED ANY PERSON FROM HAVING ANY NAME. In fact I dont want to have any name so what. If i tell my name I know you will make comments on my name and make fun? ACTUALLY I want to have the name CHUMBER. I will try. If there are any rules regarding name/identity for this blog, please let me know. I will respect it. Otherwise, please dont try to divert from the main matter.

    You wrote “( 4 ) WHILE YOU ARE ABLE TO TALK SO MUCH BAD ABOUT SOMEBODY, YOU ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT ANY THING WHICH MAY BE GOOD ABOUT IT. THAT IS YOUR ATTITUDE?”
    ***** MY ANSWER IS : – IS THERE MORE BAD TO DEFEND EVILS LIKE RAPISM,RACISM AND FASCISM.WHAT CAN EXPECT NAZIS FROM AN HUMANIST .LIKE ME ? I NEVER WROTE ANYTHING AGAINST YOUR RESPECT UNLESS YOU WROTE WRONG . I JUST REPLIED LOGICALLY.YOU ARE SO CALLED UPPER CASTE PERSON , YOU EXPECT FROM ME A SO CALLED LOW CASTE PERSON TO WORSHIP YOUR RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS.I WILL DARE TO DRINK A BOWL OF POISON LIKE SOCRATE BUT NOT TO JOIN YOUR BAD COMPANY !!!!!

    PLEASE DONT WORSHIP ANY GOD. is any one asking you to worship any god? but why are you creating enimity between brothers and sisters becase you have problems with god. If you have problems with god, then go and fight it with him. Dont create enimity within brothers and sisters.

    I understand that you are not against any caste, but you do not like the way some of the people are behaving and ill treating you. If this is correct, I would like to join you in your fight for your rights. but if you trying to do politics and create problems for OUR COUNTRY, by dividing brothers and sisters based on some stories/caste then please reconsider your position. THIS HAS BEEN BANNED BY INDIAN CONSTITUTION. NO body has the right to talk bad about any body on the basis of caste/creed or religion.

    I want to request you not to divide OUR INDIA, by creating walls based on stories and comics. Please note that creating hatred and enimity among our brothers and sisters is banned by indian laws.

    SARE JAHAN SE ACHCHA, BHARAT DESH HAMARA.

  221. Karthikeyan said

    “Guilt is a deadly scam”. Wow! Great! An eye opening statement Sharath Ji!!

  222. hh said

    mesquiteice, very nicely put. thanks very much.

    if chumber-ji does not like hindusim, he is free to chose any faith he wants. That is his personal choice. Let him not make the mistake of representing the wishes of other millions.

  223. C,L.CHUMBER said

    HOW ” SARE JAHAN SE ACHCHA , BHARAT DESH TUMHARA ? ”
    AAH SHUDAR KE LIYE HINUSTAAN GHAMKHANA HAI !!!!!
    SHARAM AATI HAI ISE APNA WATAN KAHITEY HUEY !!!!
    DEAR VIEVERS ,
    I FIRST OF ALL I THANK MR MESQUITEICE FOR HIS REMARKS( August 12, 2008 @ 7:38 am) ,” I.understand that you are not against any caste, but you do not like the way some of the people are behaving and ill treating you.” IT IS TRUE THAT I AM VERY MUCH FED UP FROM THE BEHAVIOUR OF A GANG OF SOME PERSONS WHO WROTE BAD REMARKS AGAINST THE ADMINISTRATORS , DR. AMBAWDEKAR , V.T.RAJSEKHAR , KANCHA ILLAIAH , DALITS INCLUDING MYSELF .A FEW YEARS AGO , I BEAT MY PET DOG BITTERLY .HE LEFT OUR HOME .WE TRIED OUR BEST TO PACIFY HIM BUT IN VAIN .I DID LEARN A LESSON FROM THAT SELF RESPECTFUL GOD .IN OUR CULTURE DOG IS WORSHIPED AS GOD FOR HIS SINCERITY TOWARDS MAN.! CHANKYA WAS MISBEHAVED BY THE KING MAHA PADMANAND AND CHANKYA UPROOTED HIM WITH THE HELP OF CHANDER GUPAT MAURYA .DO WE HAVE LESS SELF RESPECT THAN CHANKYA ? IF HE COULD UPROOT A KING , WHY NOT WE CAN UPROOT BRAHMINISM WHICH MADE BILLION TRILLION PEOPLE`S LIVES A HELL ? WILL THE BRAHMINS BEAR THE HUMIAILATION WHICH OUR PEOPLE FACE DUE TO THEM ? THE INDIAN CONSTITUTION IS WITH US AND WE SUFFERERS NEED TO STAND WITH THE CONSTITUTION !!!!!
    YOU GOOD SELF REPEATED THE POETRY OF DR.MOHAMAD.IQUBAL .HE ALSO WROTE ,” AAH SHUDAR KE LIYE HINDUSTAAN GHAMKHANA HAI !!!!! SHARAM AATI HAI ISE APNA WATAN KAHITEY HUEY !!!! YOUR COUNTRY AND OUR COUNTRY ARE TWO SIDES OF A COIN JUST LIKE A POSH AREA AND SLUMS OF A METRO CITY .YOU CAN NOT LIVE A NIGHT WITH YOUR FAMILY IN THESE SLUMS . A TRUE GOD WILL NOT SPARE THOSE WHO MAKE THE LIVES A HELL OF INNOCENT , HELPLESS AND POOR CITIZENS OF INDIA . ONE DAY THERE WILL BE A FRENCH REVOLUTION TYPE REVOLUTION TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY AN IDEAL FOR THE WORLD. MY INNER HEART SAY THAT THE DAY IS NEAREST TO US !!!!! PLEASE LET US MAKE OUR COUNTRY FREE FROM RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS AND CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM , THESE ARE NOT COMICS STORIES .IF THESE ARE STORIES THEN THE HINDU SCRIPTURES FROM WHICH THESE REFERRED ARE FICTIONS AUTOMATICALLY !!!!!

  224. mesquiteice said

    PLEASE NOTE THAT ANYBODY CAN MARRY ANYBODY. NO BODY HAS ANY RIGHT TO MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT OTHERS WIFE OR MARRIAGE.

    PLEASE NOTE THAT ANYBODY CAN FOLLOW ANY RELIGION. NO BODY HAS ANY RIGHT TO MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT OTHERS RELIGION.

    Dear Chumber Ji,

    You are most welcome. However, you have answered only a part of my discussion.

    For the sake of viewers i want to say that Chumberji has quoted Dr. Iqbal who is ashamed to call this country as a part of his body?(please correct me if i am wrong)

    This country is our motherland. We feel proud about it irrespective of anyone who is ashamed. The Father of our nation said that villages are the heart of our country. we are all proud of our villages as much as we are proud of our software parks and special economic zones. PLEASE DONT CREATE IMPRESSION THAT SLUMS ARE INFERIOR TO OTHER PLACES.

    IT IS JUST LIKE SOME PEOPLE GO BY AEROPLANE, SOME PEOPLE GO BY TRAIN, SOME PEOPLE GO BY MOTORCYCLE AND SOME BY CAR. WHAT IS THERE TO BE ASHAMED ABOUT GOING IN MOTORCYCLE OR WALKING. IF YOU FEEL THAT GOING BY TRAIN IS INFERIOR, THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. DONT BLAME OTHERS.

    Please note that i am also fed up with people talking bad about others. Why is dalit nation insulting a person like Dr. Ambedkar? What right does dalit nation have to talk about private life of a person and his marriage and wife etc. He has done so much for our country and yet these people treat him like this. WHY?

    I request everybody not to talk bad things about other peoples wifes. Savitaji was the principal source of inspiration to a legendary personality like Babasaheb, who played a pivotal role in framing the Constitution of our country and a good person. Why are you taking mileage from her caste and religion. WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT INSPITE OF BEING A BRAHMIN SAVITAJI FOUGHT FOR IMPROVEMENT OF OUR COUNTRY.

    ARE THEY TRYING TO TELL THAT SAVITAJI WAS A BAD BECAUSE SHE WAS A BRAHMIN? WE SHOULD LEARN TO TALK GOOD ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

    PLEASE NOTE THAT MARRIAGES ARE A RESULT OF LOVE. NOBODY HAS RIGHTS TO COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLES LOVE. I FEEL IT IS NOT CORRECT. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU FEEL THIS IS CORRECT.

  225. C.L.CHUMBER said

    I WILL NOT NEVER TAKE NOTICE OF MR.MESQITEICE WHO IS IRRATIONAL ,WORSHIPER,DEFENDER AND GLORIFIER OF RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS .
    HE IS NOW COME TO THE LEVEL OF DEFAMING ME BY MAKING FALSE STORIES .THIS CONFIRMS THAT I AM ON THE RIGHT PATH AND THE MANUWADIS ARE SEVERLY DAMAGED BY MY WRITINGS .I WILL CONTINUE TO EXPOSE THE EVIL GODS AND THEIRS FOLLOWERS WHO ARE ANTI-WOMEN AND ANTI-SHUDRA / ANTI-BAHUJANS !!!!!

  226. to-mi said

    mesquiteice,

    you have an enormous amount of patience.

    hats off to you.

    hh

  227. mesquiteice said

    I HAVE NEVER GLORIFIED ANY GOD. I DO NOT MAKE / ENDORSE STORIES.

    Chumber Ji,

    FIRSTLY PLEASE DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF GLORIFYING GODS/ MAKING STORIES. I HAVE NEVER GLORIFIED ANY GOD. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TELLING THAT THESE ARE ONLY STORIES.

    WHERE DID I DAMAGE YOUR WRITINGS. I AM SORRY IF I HAVE, IT WOULD ONLY BE A MISTAKE.

    Taking notice or not is your decision. I have noted several of your posts where you have told that we should debate and that is why i engaged in discussion with you. You only told me to analyse fiction and non fiction to get solution.

    NORMALLY YOU ANSWER TO EACH BIT OF THE DISCUSSION POINT BY POINT. THIS TIME I THINK YOU HAVE NOT EVEN READ MY POST.

    PLEASE CONTINUE TO EXPOSE ANTI-INDIAN, ANTI-WOMAN PROPAGANDA. MY 100% SUPPORT IS WITH YOU.

    JAI HIND.

  228. C,L.CHUMBER said

    *****HINDUISM IS BRAHMINISM TO DOMINATE BRAHMINS AS NO. ONE !!!!!
    *****BUDDHISM IS KSHATTARISM TO DOMINATE KSHATTRIAS AS NO.ONE !!!!!
    *****SIKHISM IS A VAISHISM TO DOMINATE VAISH VARNA AS NO. ONE !!!!!
    *****SANT MAT/ADI-DHARAM TO LIBERATE THE SHUDRAS FROM THESE THREE ARYAN RELIGIONS AND RE-ESTABLISH THE SOCIETY BASED ON EQUALITY , LIBERTY , FRATENITY AND JUSTICE FOR EVER !!!!!

  229. uknowwho said

    *****HINDUISM IS BRAHMINISM TO DOMINATE BRAHMINS AS NO. ONE !!!!!
    *****BUDDHISM IS KSHATTARISM TO DOMINATE KSHATTRIAS AS NO.ONE !!!!!
    *****SIKHISM IS A VAISHISM TO DOMINATE VAISH VARNA AS NO. ONE !!!!!
    *****SANT MAT/ADI-DHARAM TO LIBERATE THE SHUDRAS FROM THESE THREE ARYAN RELIGIONS AND RE-ESTABLISH THE SOCIETY BASED ON EQUALITY , LIBERTY , FRATENITY AND JUSTICE FOR EVER !!!!!

    So, finally you have expressed your true ideas.

    Ad-dharm, no doubt is a wonderful faith – if truly you had followed it, you wud not have abused Ram.

    But you cannot force other people to think the same way as you – that would be called imposition.

    You are free to pursue Ad-Dharm, no one is stopping you. But who are you to stop others from following the Hindu dharm?

  230. C,L.CHUMBER said

    I NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO FOLLOW OR DENOUNCE ANY RELIGION !!!!!
    Respected Viewers ,
    As you all know,I never forced anyone to follow or denounce any religion.In the modern days , we cannot even force even our family members . I had written that the Hinduism is based on caste / varna system which establishes the Brahmins as no. one in Hindu society .That is why , All non-brahmins will oppose this religion`s caste/varna system which is now declared as anti-constitution ! No body can force slavery to any one . These people must realize that theirs Hindu daynasty in the Nepal had been replaced by the democracy.
    I had not abused Rama or any one . I had just exposed a king husband who banished his pious and innocent wife Mata Sita . I will continue to serve my country to liberate the women and aboriginal Indians .This is not a crime .This is a biggest ever task in the universe .We need your co-operation,co-ordination to continue it till the goal is achieved !!!!! Thanks to all.

  231. mesquiteice said

    Chumber Ji,

    I support your views that brahmins are not no.1.

    Since you have taken up the noble cause of liberation of women an aboriginal indians, i have a message (of course subject to comments and better advice):

    Liberation has to happen from within. in order to liberate, women and aboriginal indians have to first throw away from their mind that sombody else is superior to them. They should start feeling that they are equal (we must be careful so that they dont think they are superior to others)

    In other words liberation shoud happen inside the individuals not outside.

    Keep up the good work.

  232. Rahul said

    I don’t beleive in any God or rituals. I am an Indian buddhist citizen. We should highlight the best of our culture so that it becomes more accepted and the evils of our culture will fall away. Ultimately we should all strive to acheive rational humanism. Just targetting old arcane beliefs and attacking people based on assumed beliefs is not going to solve any problem. It will only intensify hatred in soceity. Did not the Buddha teach compassion to all. Where in the Buddhist texts is hatred preached. Babasaheb accepted Buddhism to bring in equality and get out of a monstrous caste system. It was the Humanism and compassion of Buddha which attracted Babasaheb to buddhism. He could easily have accepted any other religion like Islam or christianity. But he never did that because Babasaheb was driven by two main things – rationalism and humanism.
    My family accepted Buddhism in 1974 two years before I was born. I have accepted the path of Buddha as the rational path and work towards the betterment of downtrodden people.

    But I also see a trend in Dalit organizations where more time is spent on abusing Hindus, their gods than discussing concrete measures for development and growth. I have stopped going to these so called dalit meetings nowadays because all their talk is steeped in hatred. This is not the Buddhism I can relate to. We did not become Buddhists to hate people. Why should we shout and scream about how someone worships his god or whatever.

    Some dalit activists once came to my house and they saw a Calendar in my room which had the photo of Hindu god Rama in it. I dont care much about Rama or other gods and was using the calendar as a calaendar and hadn’t even noticed the picture in it. My activist friends were so aghast at seeing this calendar that they started on a string of abuse and angry outbursts against the hindu gods. I was wonderstruck at the kind of hatred and resentment these people carried. And these people are Buddhists and cannot even handle a small thing like a image in a calendar. I am just wondering what kind of Buddhism are these people into.

    My advice to the Dalit activists is:

    - Focus on development of suffering masses don’t focus on the negatives of other people. Fight for your rights but beleive in Humanism. Don’t shout and scream like this website does on how brahmins are doing this and Brahmins are doing that. Instead tell us what your are doing for the suffering and exploited masses.

    - Have a positive self image and create a positive self image in your brethren. Stop calling yourself as downtroden all the time. I never call myself a Dalit as it is a negative stereotype. I am a strong man and a Buddhist. Not exploited by anyone and will not be exploited by any.

    - When K.R. Narayanana became the first president of India the Dalit writers pounced on him and started making statements like how he is the best and so on. Mayavathi claims that she wants to be the first ‘Chamar’ Prime Minister. She should instead become ‘the Indian Prime Minister’. You cannot scream that Vinod Kambli is a dalit and therefore a great cricketer. Then what are the other cricketers are they bad just because they are not dalit. Please focus on attainments and acheivements rather than what caste these came from. And post facto one day you will realize that the people of the community are doing well. Thats the way to grow.

    - Don’t go on and on about what caste you are. Ambedkar converted to Buddhism more than 50 years ago. If babasaheb came back to life and saw our people still calling themselves chamar, mahar and madiga he will be shocked and sad.

    - Stop labelling people as evil just because they were born in some caste or religion. This is the realm of sectarian politics based on Identity. There are all kinds of people in all the groups, communities and societies. IF you start a hatred towards communities you are just reinforcing the division and building walls of mistrust and hatred. Instead reach out to like minded people in all communities who are rational and believe and practice Humanism.

    This is the way to move forward and be progressive. This I beleive from the bottom of my heart is the Buddha’s way.

    • Sukhpal said

      DEAR RAHUL
      WE STOP HATE DISCUSSION IF THEY WILL STOP BURNING RAVANA AND HIS FAMILY EVERY YEAR.

      • Subbu said

        Sukhpalji,

        Whats your fucking problem if someone burns ravana. Valmiki ramayana clearly mentions ravana as a brahmin who worshipped shiva and was killed by a kshatriya Rama. valmiki himself calls ravana as maha brahmana.Why are you fucking so sympathetic to brahmin ravana. are you brain dead. It looks like you have drunk the dravidian kool aid of periyar and such loonies lock stock and barrel.

  233. C,L.CHUMBER said

    NIETHER YOU ARE BRAHMINS, NOR WE ARE SHUDARS !!!!!
    NEITHER YOU ARE BLOOD , NOR WE ARE MILK !!!!!
    DEAR Viewers ,
    Mr.Mesquiteice said ( August 21, 2008 @ 8:18 am ) ,” They ( women and shudars) should start feeling that they are equal (we must be careful so that they dont think they are superior to others) .”
    Our true Gods / True Gurus preached it from the primitive period.They not even preached but they did practicle. Adi-bhagwan Valmik gave shelter to pious and innocent Mata Sita banished by a king husband .He defeated King Ram and his army by his pupils and Sita`s sons Lav and Kush .He made Rama to realize the atrocities which he did with Sita for the sake of kingdom.
    Adi-guru Ravidas being a low caste baptised a princess saint Miran Bai. Guru Ravdas challenged the Brahmins that neither you were Brahmins nor we were shudars .He again said neither you were blood nor we were milk ! Adi-guru Kabir challenged the Brahmins if they claim to be Brahmin born by a Brahmin lady then you should born another way !
    Dr.Ambedkar and other untouchables leaders struggled hard to out law the manuwad and established the equality,liberity.fratrenity and justice for all legally . The Brahmins should not create nuisance ” old ” culture ! Dr.Ambedkar tried his best to got pass the Hindu code bill but in vain .He resigned as law minister on this issue. Live and let live.

  234. h said

    Rahul,

    This is so nice to read. Thanks for the post.

  235. mesquiteice said

    Rahul & Soham,

    I agree.Fundamentalists can never realise because they are in a state where they are trying to protect an identity(called religion/caste/creed) that in fact does not exist. They are caught in a situation where they have to project a falsity to be true. They can never be true because they are choosing to be false. This is their folly

    As far as activism in concered, they are fundmentalism coated with reason.

    Also, it is my belief that fundamentalists (of all religions/castes/tribes etc) are the ones who are more involved in the procedure than the truth itself. I believe whatever faith one believes, he should believe in them rather than blindly following what others are telling or doing.

    Simply put, i believe we should not follow others. I also do not feel that we should follow gods. I believe that by extreme faith, we should attain them(or become them).

    For example, if we believe in christ, we become (or should become) a christ ourselves, if we belive in krishna, we become (or should become) krishna ourselves. if we believe in ekalavya’s ideals, we become (or should become) ekalvya ourselves.

    This is when we attain what is known as “Moment of Truth”. This is when we realise.

    That is why i said :- Fundamentalists can never realise becaue they are in a state where they are trying to protect an identity(called religion/caste/creed) that in fact does not exist. They are caught in a situation where they have to project a falsity to be true. They can never be true because they are choosing to be false. This is their folly

  236. Mukilan@krishna said

    Hi to all,

    Dalit nation seems to be a fraud one. Aiswarya Rai is a bengali brahmin by birth. Salman Khan is a cheater who cheated her . Dont close your eyes and propagate anti-brahmin feelings blindly.

    In real life, brahmins and upper caste people are helping dalits to improve. what is the relationship between muslims and dalits. Dalits are hindus. If u support muslims, then why cant all dalits convert to islam instead of blaming hinduism and being hindus. Dont put stones on your own house.

    What muslims did for you? Your leaders got plenty of money from muslims to damage hinduism.
    By what way , a common brahmin is against dalits?

    It was brahmins who supported and formulated special reservations for dalits.

    Even Shankaracharyas are giving assistance to Dalits.

    Why are you, Dalit nation propagating foolish and senseless things about brahmins? use your brain and act please.

    r u ready to become muslims? r u ready to throw hinduism? r the dalits ready to keep their women in veil and r your men ready to marry four wives and follow muslim culture? by what way muslims will help u dalits, for your progress. It was brahmin and other leaders made u to come out and talk.

    Think and act……… Dont publish fraud articles (like one as Aiswarya Rai) in future.

    • Subbu said

      You moron. Aishwarya is not a bengali by any stretch. her only relationship to bengal is that she had rasogulla sized tits till she got it bigger through a boob job.

  237. C . L . CHUMBER said

    NEITHER BRAHMINS NOR SHANKRACHARYA EVER HELPED SHUDRAS !!!!!
    Dear Vievers ,
    Mr.Mukilan@krishna said ( August 24, 2008 @ 8:59 pm ) ,” In real life, brahmins and upper caste people are helping dalits to improve .”
    The Brahmins and Dalits are south pole and north pole .The Brahmins have made the non – brahmins lives hell .The non-brahmins have no due regards due to the Brahmins`castiest varna system .The Brahmins worship the Brahma who created this filthy system.How did Shankracharya helped the non-brahmins ? In India , Chhatarpati Shahu ji Maharaj – a shudra king first ever invented the reservation for dalits in his Kohlapur state . The Peshwas Kings – brahmins of Pune banned the dalits to move in Pune with respect !
    We need not to convert to any religion.We are not Hindus . We are the aboriginal Indians and the Brahmins – Aryans are forighners .We have much achieved in the constitution which have to be implemented . Why Brahmins oppose reservation of us ? No body can help us .God helps those who help themselves .We got reservation from Britishers not from Brahmins !

  238. mesquiteice said

    WE ARE ALL INDIANS

    Chumberji,

    We condemn peshwa kings who banned dalits. brahmins can not oppose reservation. It is constitutional. The problem is that every body is calling themselves backward and taking benefit wrongly whereas The actual persons for whom the reservation is required is not getting it.

    For eg. a person has a 2 crore Rs. worth Plot. His son is employed in software company and should be earning at least 25000 – 30000 per month. Therefore his gandchildren should not get any reservation. but most of the people want reservation even after having all facilities. the reservation is actually for people who are from tribal area who to score 40% marks have to take as much trouble as other children would take to score 95% marks

    Why should a doctor’s/lawyer’s/engineers/software professional children be entitiled to reservation. Why should a minister call himself backward and take benefit of reservation.

    You said “We got reservation from Britishers not from Brahmins”.

    Please don’t try to justify/glorify british rule. If you like british rule , I cant help it (but request you to please remember Bhagat Singh, Chandrashekar Azad, Subhash Chandra Bose etc.). Dont ask us to accept that britishers did good things to our country(don’t sell expiry dated medicine). We don’t want any britisher to do good to us. We know what to do and what not

    We are not small children to go behind anyone who gives us a sweet, without knowing that it is actually poison.

    Why should we go and beg britishers for things. We cannot accept any british rule.

    The britishers divided our country on the basis of religion / caste because they knew that they cannot rule us if we are united. We cannot fight among ourselves and open the door for another british rule.

    Don’t forget that our country and its independence is our greatest strength. Our country is giving you and ready to give you more.

    Please understand the britishers looted so much from this country and took it back to their country. They did not want to live with us. Your so called Aryans on the other hand, left their native places and settled in India and lived and are living with us as an Indian.

    Please understand the difference.

    Even otherwise any foreigner can become an indian citizen under our constitution. Once a person becomes an indian citizen no body can talk about their earlier citizenship. They have all rights .

    Let us do good things in life and build a strong India.

    Jai Hind

  239. Krishna said

    We need not to convert to any religion.We are not Hindus . We are the aboriginal Indians and the Brahmins – Aryans are forighners .We have much achieved in the constitution which have to be implemented . Why Brahmins oppose reservation of us ? No body can help us .God helps those who help themselves .We got reservation from Britishers not from Brahmins !

    ANSWER:

    You are an Aryan. You are the men who got positioned yourselves as “aryans”.

    We south Indians are proud of our brahmins.

    You need reservations because you are weak. Without crutches, you will limp.

    To keep you in crutches, the whole country needs to limp.

    Do not talk nonsense without seeing what the Shankaracharyas in south India are doing.

  240. Krishna said

    Mukilan,

    Ash Rai is bunt, not bengali.

  241. C . L. CHUMBER said

    ABORIGINAL INDIANS ARE FLOURISHING IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES WITHOUT ANY RESERVATION WHERE THERE IS NO CASTE / VARNA MENTALITY !!!!!
    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr.Krishna said ( August 26, 2008 @ 10:25 am ) ,”You are an Aryan. You are the men who got positioned yourselves as “aryans”.
    ( 2 ) We south Indians are proud of our brahmins.
    ( 3 )You need reservations because you are weak. Without crutches, you will limp. To keep you in crutches, the whole country needs to limp.
    ( 4 ) Do not talk nonsense without seeing what the Shankaracharyas in south India are doing.”
    My answer is : – Mr.Manu in his Manu-Simrity wrote ,” The sacred thread of a Brahman ( must be ) of cotton , put on ( over the left shoulder ) : of a Kshatriya ( it must be ) of hemp-thread : of a Vaishya , a woolen thread .( Chapter 2nd `s 44th commandment ) .Therefore , the Shudras are not Aryans !!!!! Which positions Shudras got as Aryans may be produced with documents .
    ( 2 ) The Brahmans of India are of same stock . What did the Brahmans of south India different from north ?
    ( 3 ) Who made Shudras weak ? The Shudras are not weak , your manuwadi system is weak to establish a society based on equality , liberty , fraternity and justice ! That is why the constitution made provision of reservation for the suffierers of the manuwadi system . Your south Indian Brahmans once praded on Delhi roads demnding reservation for themselves . In future you Brahmans will be so weak that you will be given the crutchis of reservation !!!!!
    The aboriginal Indians migrated in modern times in millions to many foreign countries do not avail any kind of reservation .They found there an environment based on equality,liberty , fraternity and justice .They competet even with Englishmen .
    ( 4 ) What did the Shankracharyas is to save the caste / varna system !They do not arrange mass intercaste marriages . What are they doing ? One of the Shankracharyas murdered his Brahman manager and is facing the trial in the court !!!!!
    Mr.Manu wrote in his Manu-Simrity constitution ,” One who is not a Brahman deserves capital punishment for committing adultery .” ( Chapter 8 /359 ) .He again wrote ,” Certainly ( the king ) should not slay a Brahman even if he be occupied in crime of of every sort –” ( Chapter 8/380 ) .Had any Shankracharya burnt the Manu-Simrity like Dr.Ambedkar ?

  242. C . L. CHUMBER said

    BRAHMA AND BRAHMANS DIVIDED ADI- INDIA INTO THOUSANDS CASTES !!!!!
    MY CHILDREN NEITHER JOINED NOR WILL JOIN GOVT. JOBS !!!!!

  243. Sanjam said

    so mr chumber lal chootiya is back!
    hahahahahahhahahahaaa
    you did not have balls to keep my comments published coz they strip you and your retorts!
    LOSERS!!!

  244. h said

    ~The Brahmans of India are of same stock . What did the Brahmans of south India different from north ?~

    No, they are not. You can find southie andhra brahmins of central asian origin and northie chaturvedis with ethiopian genes.

    We are proud of our brahmins in the south because they have stuck out well despite all adversity. Go check the literacy rates of brahmins in various parts of India. You will find those of the south, the highest.

    If you talk nonsense abt the Shankaracharyas of the south without seeing the activities the mutt is involved in for the benefit of the poor (irrespective of caste), it just means you are a sick individual. And just like someone wrote here, i might want to call you a hitler as well.

    Abt the rest of your post:
    You choose to remain stuck only one one book – Manusmrithi. Since that is ALL you know, will leave it at that. Am not inclined to be dragged to your level anymore.

  245. h said

    ~~BRAHMA AND BRAHMANS DIVIDED ADI- INDIA INTO THOUSANDS CASTES !!!!! MY CHILDREN NEITHER JOINED NOR WILL JOIN GOVT. JOBS !!!!!~~

    Dear Mr.Foreign-money-stooge,

    The British, not brahmins divided Adi-India into 1000s of castes. The British recorded various tribes here alright but got confused with Varna in between. What you call as 1000s of castes among Adi-vasis are actually 1000s of different tribes. God made them. Go blame fate instead of blaming one community.

    ~~MY CHILDREN NEITHER JOINED NOR WILL JOIN GOVT. JOBS !!!!!~~

    Ofcourse, your children are the children of a politician. They will be rich and work in wealth-making sectors. You will keep the government inefficient by begging for reservations. How can your children work for peanuts there?

  246. C . L. CHUMBER said

    BRITISHERS GAVE US CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY, GOVT.( LEGISLATURE, EXECUTIVE , JUDICIARY ),RAILWAYS , COMMUNICATION,POSTAL ,ENGLISH , GOVT. SCHOOLS , AIRLINES !!!!!
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    Mr.Mesquiteice said ( August 26, 2008 @ 9:15 am ) ,” You said “We got reservation from Britishers not from Brahmins”.
    Please don’t try to justify/glorify british rule. If you like british rule , I cant help it (but request you to please remember Bhagat Singh, Chandrashekar Azad, Subhash Chandra Bose etc.). Dont ask us to accept that britishers did good things to our country(don’t sell expiry dated medicine). We don’t want any britisher to do good to us. We know what to do and what not
    My answer is : – I had written only one line which is constitutional historical fact that the Britishers sanctioned reservation in Govt. jobs to untouchables ( now SCs ) . Is it wrong .You bloody fool beasts Brahman forefathers made us worst than the animals .A dog could swim in your religious pond but our innocent forefathers could not even drink water from that so called religious pond .Dr.Ambawdekar @ Dr. Ambedkar `s Mahad Pond Movement is the classic example .When he drank water from that pond , your Brahman manuwadi forefathers poured urine and latrine of the cows to purify that pond .You are still advocating the same filthy philosophy this way or that way which our country`s constitution banned !!!!!
    M/S Bhagat Singh , Chander Shekhar and Subash Chander Bose were communal .They fought for their own liberation .They did not fought for SCs , STs and OBCs .Chander Shekhar Azad used to wear the sacred thread out of his shirt which Shudra can not wear .Mr . S.C.Bose opposed the legal rights of SCs . Bhagat Singh was an Arya Samaji which is against the SCs,STs , OBCs , Sikhs,Muslims,Buddhists and Jains .( Please read the daya Nand `s Satyarth Parksh.

    ( 2 )We are not small children to go behind anyone who gives us a sweet, without knowing that it is actually poison.

    Why should we go and beg britishers for things. We cannot accept any british rule.

  247. Sanjam said

    Chootiya Lal Chumber is a polygmaous nincampoop asshole, whose mission is to spread hatred, reinforce casteism, fragment our country and ensure that only those who have reservations get the jobs,,, not those who study hard, or work hard, or have brains… but only quotas should decide jobs, promotions, admissions.
    MR CHUMBER ,, I WANT TO KNOW THAT BLACKS WERE/ARE MISTREATED IN USA, BUT THERE IS NO “QUOTA” FOR THEM? JEWS WERE KILLED IN ENTIRE EUROPE, IN SO MANY COUNTRIES, THERE IS NO “RESERVATION” FOR THEM?
    IF ALL THE COUNTRIES AND COMMUNITIES START CRYING FOR QUOTAS, THEN, THE ENTRANCE EXAMS AND EVALUATION SYSTEMS SHOULD BE ABOLISHED,,,
    ALL THE COUNTRIES TRY TO SIEVE OR SIFT TO SHORTLIST HARDWORKING, SMART, INTELLIGENT CANDIDATES,,,
    BUT,
    GOING BY MR CHUMBER’S ARGUEMENT,,, OUR COUNTRY SHOULD SPECIFICALLY, FOLLOW SOMETHING COMPLETELEY OPPOSITE,,, BY FILTERING INCOMPETENT JERKS LIKE HIM, AND GIVING THEM JOBS, ADMISSIONS, PROMOTIONS AND QUOTAS ETC…

    WE ARE ON PATH OF RUINING OUR SOCIETY…

    I KNOW BASTARDS FROM CHUMBER’S COMMUNITY WHO ARE ENJOYING THE FRUITS OF QUOTAS AND RESERVATIONS FOR LAST 2 GENERATIONS,,, THEY DONT HAVE ANY SHAME,,,ANY WILL TO DO ANYTHING,,, WHY SHOULD THEY,,, THEY HAVE A QUOTA THAT PROVIDES THEM EVERYTHING!

    IF CHUMBER HAS BALLS,,, THEN DONT DELETE MY POST…REASON OUT WITH ME! I’LL PROVE IT TO YOU,, THAT RESERVATION SYSTEM IS A SCOURGE THAT WILL RUIN ANY SOCIETY,,, JUST LIKE OURS!

  248. C . L. CHUMBER said

    MR . SANJAM ( SELF-CONTROL ) CALL ME MR.CHUMBER LAL CHOOTIYA !!!!!

    Sanjam said,

    September 1, 2008 @ 6:27 am

    so mr chumber lal chootiya is back!
    hahahahahahhahahahaaa
    you did not have balls to keep my comments published coz they strip you and your retorts!
    LOSERS!!!

  249. C . L. CHUMBER said

    MR. HAPPY HINDU SAY HIS GOD MADE CASTES IN THOUSANDS ONLY IN INDIA !
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    Mr . H @ Happy Hindu said ( September 1, 2008 @ 4:43 pm ) ,” Dear Mr.Foreign-money-stooge,- – God made them. Go blame fate instead of blaming one community.”
    My answer is : Shahid-e-azam Sahib Kanshi Ram wrote a book in which he warned not to indulge with the stooges / chamchas . Then he said that hit on the hands in which the chamcha is held and the chamcha will be on the earth ! The chamcha do not have power to move .
    I am neither stooge of internal nor external force . Once your fore fathers branded our for fathers the stooge of the Britishers for wanting human rights.Dr.Ambawdekar @ Dr. Ambedkar had to write a chapter ,” False Charge- Are Untouchables tools of the British ? ” in his book ” What Congress and Gandhi have done to the untouchables ? Now Dr. Ambawdekar@ Dr. Ambedkar is bestowed posthumously announced by the Indian govt as BHARAT RATAN !!!!! His constitution nullified the Brahma and Brahmans` varna / caste system ?
    Now you say me ” Mr.Foreign-money-stooge ” . Last year an Akali leader approached me and said that S. Parkash Singh Badal wish to visit my home during the Punjab Assembly election.I refused to acommodate him . I have no lust for money and chair . I am a saint in plain clothes . For the True God sake , don`t blame like this . You are accountable ethically and legally .Once you wrote that you live in a foreign country .There is also the INTER POL ( INTERNATIONAL POLICE ) .

  250. C . L. CHUMBER said

    MY CHILDREN WILL DEFEND ME LIKE LAV AND KUSH WHO DEFENDED THEIR INNOCENT AND PIOUS MOTHER SITA !!!!!
    Mr.Happy Hindu said ,”Of course, your children are the children of a politician. They will be rich and work in wealth-making sectors. You will keep the government inefficient by begging for reservations. How can your children work for peanuts there? ” He commented on my writing ,” ~MY CHILDREN NEITHER JOINED NOR WILL JOIN GOVT. JOBS !!!!!~~”
    Sometime they say the creamy layer reserve catagory must not avail reservation . Now I made my children to stand without reservation then this My.Happy Hindu enjoy by blaming like this .I am not even a member of a political party . I believe that doing corruption is like the doing intercourse with ours sisters and daughters ! And Mr. Happy Hindu do this by blaming me ! I hate the corruption and corrupt persons . That is why I do not hesitate to expose the sexually and socially corrupt persons which Mr. Happy Hindu worship in the guise of Gods !
    He already admitted in one of his writing that he is mad now . Therefore I do not mind his mindless blames .

  251. h said

    ~~M/S Bhagat Singh , Chander Shekhar and Subash Chander Bose were communal .They fought for their own liberation .They did not fought for SCs , STs and OBCs .Chander Shekhar Azad used to wear the sacred thread out of his shirt which Shudra can not wear .Mr . S.C.Bose opposed the legal rights of SCs . Bhagat Singh was an Arya Samaji which is against the SCs,STs , OBCs , Sikhs,Muslims,Buddhists and Jains .( Please read the daya Nand `s Satyarth Parksh.~~
    ———————–
    Chumber-idiot,

    YOU CALL FREEDOM FIGHTERS AS COMMUNAL PEOPLE?

    YOU GUYS ARE CLEARLY ANTI-INDIANS. SHAME ON YOU BAST****S.

  252. h said

    Beggers are fit only to beg for reservations.

  253. mesquiteice said

    Chumber Ji,

    Yes it is wrong. Britishers did not GIVE us anything. They only taught us how to fight within ourselves by grabbing other peoples rights. They created enimity between our own brothers. Remember Mangal Panday, I know you will abuse him also . So I will not tell you about him before your response to my discussion below.

    How is a person like you who is feeling so much for our SC/ ST brothers and sisters able to talk bad about our brothers who died for us. Didn’t Bhagat Singh sacrifice his life for us to be able to have a discussion like this.

    What is the meaning of your word “COMMUNAL” .

    It this what you give in return to somebody who gave his life for everybody else(including you and your family) to live independantly.

    Is this what you will comment about people who selflessly sacrificed not just their property but their lives.

    Are you ready to sacrifice your life for upliftment of SC ST. All you want is to divide people on the basis fo a non existant/expiry dated food called caste/religion and making SC/ST feel lower. You are not giving them an opportunity to fight for survival and making them weak. So that other countries may take away our independance.

    We can never accept such things that just because british gave some lolypop to you he is good. Will you abandon your poor mother who is not able to give you rich food for any lady who gives you food. Anybody can give food, but only mother gives life. You do not know how much our mothers suffer to give birth and give you her blood in the form of milk. Just because some lady gives you a choclate, immedialy you talk bad about the mother. This is not correct.

    What your talking is an insult to “Bharatmata”. You are talking bad about her son who fought for her freedom. (if you are an indian) Why dont you understand that talking bad about you brothers is like talking bad about yourself. Why do you want to fall in the feet of british. Be brave and tell the british that we do not want you to tell us how we should run our country.

    Why are your trying to clothe people with a non existant mask called caste religion and make them unhappy.

    If our forefathers had done mistakes, should not we correct it. what is the use of crying like a baby about things of the past.

    I want to tell you that “you will never be able to help downtrodden by behaving in this manner”. Be a baba amte. Be a Mother Therasa, Be a subramanya Bharathi.

    We have limited life span of 50-60 years. Do good to people in this time. They will remember you. Dont play politics

    OPEN UP AND THE WORLD IS OURS.

  254. h said

    MY CHILDREN WILL DEFEND ME LIKE LAV AND KUSH WHO DEFENDED THEIR INNOCENT AND PIOUS MOTHER SITA !!!!!

    So according to you – Sita is good, Luv and Kush are good but Ram is bad – is that what Valmiki wrote? You are a third grade cheap politician – accept it.

    if you call me a stooge, i too will call you a stooge. Strangely, i have no regrets or anger within me for behaving so badly with you.

    Idiots like you are not in the process of helping to remove any poverty – they are only in the process of “removing hindu religion”.

    I can give you a list of people, including my parents, who served as doctors for free in rural places and continue to serve in charity hospitals. Do you know how it is to teach even basic hygiene to slum dwellers – even sensitizing them to basic awareness of toilet usage is a problem – yes i am proud to say that that is what many elderly people are doing now by becoming part of social organizations.

    My grandmother’s sister, a surgeon, did not even marry (she is staunch Vishnu devotee and He, the God is her motivation to serve the downtrodden) – she used up all her ancestral wealth and lifetime earnings to build a free hospital in madras for the type of people that you only pretend to help- to serve your political purposes.

    Do not try to threaten me with Interpol and nonsense. You have no idea how far i can go. Yes i have no qualms to admit with regret that i am not even an indian citizen – only recently i have applied for overseas indian citizen status. When i get it, i will infom you – so that you can file whatever case on me.

    Also i wish to let you know that there are people who are willing to come out in the open and deal with horrible politicians like you directly – elderly people mostly.

    And i am in the process of collecting signatures of those who seek to petition against the “inappropriate representation of hindu religion and misuse of it by politicians”. Comments on this blog by you and Dalitnation will be an example to explain “what is misuse of religion”.

    Dalitnation, KEEP THIS POST PUBLISHED. Don’t you ever delete this. Or i will post it again and again.

  255. h said

    MY CHILDREN WILL DEFEND ME LIKE LAV AND KUSH WHO DEFENDED THEIR INNOCENT AND PIOUS MOTHER SITA !!!!!
    Mr.Happy Hindu said ,”Of course, your children are the children of a politician. They will be rich and work in wealth-making sectors. You will keep the government inefficient by begging for reservations. How can your children work for peanuts there? ” He commented on my writing ,” ~MY CHILDREN NEITHER JOINED NOR WILL JOIN GOVT. JOBS !!!!!~~”
    Sometime they say the creamy layer reserve catagory must not avail reservation . Now I made my children to stand without reservation then this My.Happy Hindu enjoy by blaming like this .I am not even a member of a political party . I believe that doing corruption is like the doing intercourse with ours sisters and daughters ! And Mr. Happy Hindu do this by blaming me ! I hate the corruption and corrupt persons . That is why I do not hesitate to expose the sexually and socially corrupt persons which Mr. Happy Hindu worship in the guise of Gods !
    He already admitted in one of his writing that he is mad now . Therefore I do not mind his mindless blames .

    ————
    Mr.Idiot,

    I wrote that you are madder than me. What does that make you, you scumbag?

    I am not blaming you un-necessarily.

    You yourself know what all nonsense you have written. Now you want to be treated with respect?

    Abdul Kalam was not raised in a rich family. Did he not reach the highest positions of the country? Did he avail reservations?

    It is good you did not avail reservations for your kids. If you can make them capable of competition, why do you want reservations for others?

    You call yourself a saint? No you are not. You are a manipulator, you manipulate people and their words for political gain – you are a 3rd grade politician – not even worth a spittle. [Yes, the most harsh curse statements i have ever made in my life - and again i feel no regret, no remorse - mayb you really are an evil guy].

  256. posting again said

    MY CHILDREN WILL DEFEND ME LIKE LAV AND KUSH WHO DEFENDED THEIR INNOCENT AND PIOUS MOTHER SITA !!!!!

    So according to you – Sita is good, Luv and Kush are good but Ram is bad – is that what Valmiki wrote? You are a third grade cheap politician – accept it.

    if you call me a stooge, i too will call you a stooge. Strangely, i have no regrets or anger within me for behaving so badly with you.

    Idiots like you are not in the process of helping to remove any poverty – they are only in the process of “removing hindu religion”. For political gain, nothing else.

    I can give you a list of people, including my parents, who served as doctors for free in rural places and continue to serve in charity hospitals. Do you know how it is to teach even basic hygiene to slum dwellers – even sensitizing them to basic awareness of toilet usage is a problem – yes i am proud to say that that is what many elderly people are doing now by becoming part of social organizations.

    My grandmother’s sister, a surgeon, did not even marry (she is staunch Vishnu devotee and He, the God is her motivation to serve the downtrodden) – she used up all her ancestral wealth and lifetime earnings to build a free hospital in madras for the type of people that you only pretend to help- to serve your political purposes.

    Do not try to threaten me with Interpol and nonsense. You have no idea how far i can go. Yes i have no qualms to admit with regret that i am not even an indian citizen – only recently i have applied for overseas indian citizen status. When i get it, i will infom you – so that you can file whatever case on me.

    Also i wish to let you know that there are people who are willing to come out in the open and deal with horrible politicians like you directly – elderly people mostly.

    And i am in the process of collecting signatures of those who seek to petition against the “inappropriate representation of hindu religion and misuse of it by politicians”. Comments on this blog by you and Dalitnation will be an example to explain “what is misuse of religion”.

    Dalitnation, KEEP THIS POST PUBLISHED. Don’t you ever delete this. Or i will post it again and again.

  257. C .L . CHUMBER said

    RESERVATION FOR THE SUFFERERS OF RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS AND THEIRS FOLLOWERS WILL BE UNTIL THEY REGAIN EQUAL SOCIAL AND EDUCATIONA STATUS TO NON-RESERVED CATEGORIES !!!!! THIS NOT A BEGGING , THESE RIGHTS ARE GAINED BY HARD AND LONG NON-VIOLENT STRUGLLE AGAINST THE MANUWADIS !!!!! ONE DAY THE MANUWADIS WILL ALSO ” BEG ” FOR RESERVATION BUT WE WILL NOT OPPOSE BECAUSE EVERY COMMUNITY MUST HAVE THEIR SHARE PROPORTIONATE TO THEIRS POPULATION OF INDIA !!!!!

  258. C .L . CHUMBER said

    MR.HAPPY HINDU IN DIALOGUE THERE IS NEITHER IDIOT NOR BASTERED !!!!!

  259. C .L . CHUMBER said

    YES,I AM PROUD TO GET A MERITORIOUS NAME ” Chootiya Lal Chumber ” FROM THE MANUWADI FOLLOWERS OF THE RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!!
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    Mr.Sanjam said ( September 2, 2008 @ 1:13 pm ) ,” Chootiya Lal Chumber is a polygmaous nincampoop asshole, whose mission is to spread hatred, reinforce casteism, fragment our country and ensure that only those who have reservations get the jobs,,, not those who study hard, or work hard, or have brains… but only quotas should decide jobs, promotions, admissions.”

    THEIRS FOREFATHERS BRANDED OUR FOREFATHERS AS DACOITS ( ADI-MAHA-BHAGWAN VALMIKI AND ADI-MAHA-GURU NAMDEV ), HRAMZADA ( ADI-MAHA-GURU KABIR ),BRAHMAN IN PREVOUS BIRTH ( ADI-MAHA-GURU RAVIDAS ),SWAMI JUTA NAND ( SWAMI ACHHUTANAND OF ADI-HINDU MAHASABHA ) AND MANY MORE .
    THEY BRANDED BABA MANGU RAM MUGGOWALIA , SWAMI ACHUTANAND , DR. AMBAWDEKAR @ DR.AMBEDKAR , EVR NAICKER PERIYAR,JOGINDER NATH MANDAL ,AYYAN KALI AND FOUNDERS OF ADI-ANDHRA , ADI-KARNATKA ,ADI-DRAVIDA AND MANY MORE ABORIGINAL INDIANS MODERN MOVEMENTS AS THE STOOGES OF THE BRITISHERS .
    MRS.INDIRA GANDHI,PM OF INDIA HONOURED BABA MUGGOWALIA AS THE FREEDOM FIGHTER AND MR.V.P.SINGH , PM OF INDIA HONOURED DR.AMBEDKAR POSTHUMOUSLY AS ” BHARAT RATTAN”.!!!!!
    WE ARE PROUD OF OUR THESE SAVIOURS !!!!! I WILL WRITE THE FOUR SHANKRACHARYAS OF HINDUS TO ANNOUNCE THESE TITLES FOR BRAHMANS ALSO !!!!!

  260. h said

    MR.HAPPY HINDU IN DIALOGUE THERE IS NEITHER IDIOT NOR BASTERED !!!!!
    ————————–

    Thanks for the advice Mr.dumbhead.

    Yes i know that. Problem is you do not.

    And you can be handled only in your way, not anyone else’s way.

    I HAVE DECIDED TO CALL YOU RAPIST, RACIST and FASCIST.

    See, how much you are teaching me to go much below your own level?

  261. h said

    THEIRS FOREFATHERS BRANDED OUR FOREFATHERS AS DACOITS ( ADI-MAHA-BHAGWAN VALMIKI AND ADI-MAHA-GURU NAMDEV ), HRAMZADA ( ADI-MAHA-GURU KABIR ),BRAHMAN IN PREVOUS BIRTH ( ADI-MAHA-GURU RAVIDAS ),SWAMI JUTA NAND ( SWAMI ACHHUTANAND OF ADI-HINDU MAHASABHA ) AND MANY MORE .
    —————————–

    Sorry for talking in between here. But am trying to make you see reason:

    Chumber, i too am from a Valmiki tribe admiture.

    I already told you that – explained all, but still you will say “their forefathers branded our forefathers as dacoits”……Chumber, why you do not understand WE ARE ALL THE SAME.

    Am sure there are many ‘brahmins’ in the present time who will also find matches with people from the Valmiki tribe.

    Why cannot you see that Valmiki WROTE the Ramayan which everybody in the whole world is following, even in Southeast Asia.

    NOBODY REMEBERS VALMIKI AS ANYTHING ELSE BUT A SAGE. Nobody is branding nobody. Yes, he is a Sage. He is divine.

    Valmiki shows you that you too can know the divinity within you and be a sage by becoming him.

    Why you do not want to become the Valmiki sage, the one you worship, Chumber. And teach others also the same?

    Valmiki taught Bharadwaja – do you know how many people are from the Bharadwaja lineage as descendents or students. They are automatically Valmiki’s students also. They are not different from you and me. They are the same, sharing similar tribal admixture as us.

    Why do you call them as outsiders or as labellers? Nobody has labelled anyone.

    Please Chumber – as long as you do not twist my words, I will behave well with you.

    I am being very honest with you, opening up like this on public domain like this, so that all who read can understand what anti-brahminism is about:

    Some years back, i too was brainwashed because of listening to a lot of nonsense. Despite whatever i felt inside, i just shook my head, the atmosphere was so bad. At that time, i could not vent myself or say anything at all.

    The way you abuse Rama and Krishna is all very familiar. The words you use is still decent because it is in written form.

    All i ask you is this Chumber:

    How do you feel when you are humiliated, when you are called names? You even asked me not to call you names, you could not take it right?

    Similarly i too felt humiliated and very hurt for being called names for being a shudra, and for being made to feel that somehow or the other i must feel anger for the ‘brahmins’ who caused it me to be a shudra.

    When i was growing up, it was a matter of pride to be called a shudra by birth, kshatriya by karma, brahmin in thought and a vaishya by profession.

    I still do not find anything wrong in being called a shudra.

    Maybe because of my previous grounding or blessing of gurus, i managed to get out that atmosphere, with both spiritual debt and financial debt.

    So what you talking is about a been-there atmosphere.

    Now, as a friend am sharing a few thought with you:

    Brahminism is not casteism or suppression. Brahmins are not different from us. They are the culture which we ourselves have created.

    Chumber, when you feel so bad being called such horrible names, will not our brothers and sisters feel the same too ? Why do you repeteadly keep calling them dalits, and strip them of dignity.

    i do not deny that you became the perfect punchbag to remove the anger (no wonder there is relief). But Chumber, you are incurring a big sin by misguiding people, by telling them that they can never be hindus, they cannot pray as they like and by causing torture in their hearts by labelling their gods and creating mental chaos.

    Every single humanbeing is as sensitive as you and me. I am only asking this as a request (if you make the mistake of mistaking any of this as weakness, you had it – do not tell me i did not warn you) : Please forget poltics. Forget religion. Forget everything. Go and join a social organization with our brothers and sisters, give them education, give them skills, give them opportunites.

    See you. Bye.

  262. Issac the Jew said

    CHUMBER U ARE A DAMN ARSEHOLE. YOU ARE A RACIST, FASCIST AND A RAPIST!

  263. C.L.CHUMBER said

    YOU MAY KILL ME BUT YOU CAN NOT KILL MY REASONIG AND WRITINGS !!!!!
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    Mr.Happy Hindu ( Dukhi ram ) @
    posting again said,
    September 4, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
    ” Also i wish to let you know that there are people who are willing to come out in the open and deal with horrible politicians like you directly – elderly people mostly.”
    My Answer is :- I had exposed you Brahmanism , your rapist,racist and fascist Gods , you varna / caste system and more over you modern Brahmans and their illogical ctooges !!!!! What is the use of aimless life ? Now my aim of life is to expose you modern Brahmans that you are neither religious nor non-violent !

  264. C.L.CHUMBER said

    MR.HAPPY HINDU`S FAMILY LADIES WILL ALSO GIVE SURETY THAT I HAD NEVER RAPED ANY LADY IN THE UNVERSE !!!!!
    DEAR VIEWERS ,
    Mr. Happy Hindu ( Dukhi Ram ) @ H said ( September 5, 2008 @ 11:21 am),” Yes i know that. Problem is you do not.And you can be handled only in your way, not anyone else’s way.I HAVE DECIDED TO CALL YOU RAPIST, RACIST and FASCIST.See, how much you are teaching me to go much below your own level? ”
    My answer is : – I had never used abusive language .I had not handeled any one by this filthy way . I am neither racist nor fascist . I had not invented caste / varna like filthy system . I respect the all women like my mother , sisters and daughters . I never visited Mr.Happy Hindu`s sweet home , then how he blamed me as rapist .I am fighting against the rapists , racists and fascists and Mr. Happy Hindu is Dukhi Ram due to my stand .Actually he is the standless as well as senseless !!!!!

  265. shravan said

    Ridiculous!

  266. h said

    RESERVATION FOR THE SUFFERERS OF RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS AND THEIRS FOLLOWERS WILL BE UNTIL THEY REGAIN EQUAL SOCIAL AND EDUCATIONA STATUS TO NON-RESERVED CATEGORIES !!!!! THIS NOT A BEGGING , THESE RIGHTS ARE GAINED BY HARD AND LONG NON-VIOLENT STRUGLLE AGAINST THE MANUWADIS !!!!! ONE DAY THE MANUWADIS WILL ALSO ” BEG ” FOR RESERVATION BUT WE WILL NOT OPPOSE BECAUSE EVERY COMMUNITY MUST HAVE THEIR SHARE PROPORTIONATE TO THEIRS POPULATION OF INDIA !!!!!

    ——————

    Chumber, i forgot to add SADIST to your list of qualities.

    So you want people to beg for reservations becasue you already understand that you are begger, right?

    Reservations were designed to uplift the poor people — but how much you politicians have abused that system – how many slum dweller have benefitted from it — instead rich people claim ‘low caste’ status and snatch away the share of the poor…..and you justify this system? Tum jaise ko sharm kyon nahi aati.

    I am asking you again: Who are manuwadi hindus? According to you anyone who is a hindu, is a manuwadi, is it?

  267. h said

    Chumber,

    Just answer these questions:

    Manusmrithi:
    a) Where in the Manusmrithi there is any right to rape?
    d) Why did you propagate this idea without reading the manusmrithi?
    e) Why did you specifically use this to target women of brahmin community ‘to remove them from varna’? Why did you not use it to target kshatriya women?

    Valmiki Ramayan:
    a) Where in the Ramayan has Valmiki spoken badly abour Ram?
    b) Where in Ramayan or anywhere did Valmiki speak about “dynamatizing the system’ and removing varna?

    Indian Constitution:
    a) Where in the constitution has the Indian government banned Vishnu, Brahma and Hindu Gods?
    b) Where in the constitution does it say that Hindus cannot worship in their own way or follow their faith.

    Law:
    a) Who gave you the legal right to call our gods rapists, racists and fascists?
    b) Who gave you the legal right to make politics out of the Ramayan?
    c) Who gave you the right to interefere in anyone’s faith? [I ask you this also on the behalf of Buddhists to whom you prescribe they must not meditate, on the behalf of Adi-Dharmis, whose faith you represent so badly; and on the behalf of Sikhs, whose faith you call Jattism].

    You better prepare your answers. You will have to answer them in court anyway.

    Do not lie, Do not misquote, Do not hide behind your own stupidity. Do not make misuse of your SC certificate – any of that again is liable to give you a few more months behind the bars (its your language and your way, dude).

  268. h said

    Posting again. Do Not Delete.

    h said,
    September 7, 2008 @ 10:12 am

    RESERVATION FOR THE SUFFERERS OF RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS AND THEIRS FOLLOWERS WILL BE UNTIL THEY REGAIN EQUAL SOCIAL AND EDUCATIONA STATUS TO NON-RESERVED CATEGORIES !!!!! THIS NOT A BEGGING , THESE RIGHTS ARE GAINED BY HARD AND LONG NON-VIOLENT STRUGLLE AGAINST THE MANUWADIS !!!!! ONE DAY THE MANUWADIS WILL ALSO ” BEG ” FOR RESERVATION BUT WE WILL NOT OPPOSE BECAUSE EVERY COMMUNITY MUST HAVE THEIR SHARE PROPORTIONATE TO THEIRS POPULATION OF INDIA !!!!!

    ——————

    Chumber, i forgot to add SADIST to your list of qualities.

    So you want people to beg for reservations becasue you already understand that you are begger, right?

    Reservations were designed to uplift the poor people — but how much you politicians have abused that system – how many slum dweller have benefitted from it — instead rich people claim ‘low caste’ status and snatch away the share of the poor…..and you justify this system? Tum jaise ko sharm kyon nahi aati.

    I am asking you again: Who are manuwadi hindus? According to you anyone who is a hindu, is a manuwadi, is it?

  269. shem said

    Posting under another name. Posts under h or hh are either deleted or discarded.

    h said,
    September 8, 2008 @ 3:01 am

    Chumber,

    Why you are always living your life for these ‘dear viewers’ of yours……

    When you are in trouble, beleive me, nobody will come to your rescue..

    YOU MISQUOTED EVERYTHING.
    YOU QUOTED YOUR OWN LIES….and then passed it off as “Kabir said this”, “Manusmrithi said this”, etc.

    But I will not leave you without answers to these questions:

    Manusmrithi:
    a) Where in the Manusmrithi there is any right to rape?
    d) Why did you propagate this idea without reading the manusmrithi?
    e) Why did you specifically use this to target women of brahmin community ‘to remove them from varna’? Why did you not use it to target kshatriya women?

    Valmiki Ramayan:
    a) Where in the Ramayan has Valmiki spoken badly abour Ram?
    b) Where in Ramayan or anywhere did Valmiki speak about “dynamatizing the system’ and removing varna?

    Indian Constitution:
    a) Where in the constitution has the Indian government banned Vishnu and Hindu Gods?
    b) Where in the constitution does it say that Hindus cannot worship in their own way or follow their faith.

    Law:
    a) Who gave you the legal right to call our gods rapists, racists and fascists?
    b) Who gave you the legal right to make politics out of the Ramayan?
    c) Who gave you the right to interefere in anyone’s faith? [I ask you this also on the behalf of Buddhists to whom you prescribe they must not meditate, on the behalf of Adi-Dharmis, whose faith you represent so badly; and on the behalf of Sikhs, whose faith you call Jattism].

    You better prepare your answers. You will have to answer them in court anyway.

    Do not lie. Do not misquote / misuse statements. Do not hide behind your own stupidity or make misuse of your SC certificate – that again is liable to give you a few more months behind the bars (its your language and your way, dude).

  270. C.L.CHUMBER said

    Mr.HAPPY HINDU ! HAVE YOUR FEMALE FAMILY MEMBERS TOLD THAT I AM RAPIST ? PLEASE CLEAR THIS , THEN I WILL DIALOGUE WITH YOU !!!!!

  271. C.L.CHUMBER said

    MR.ISSAC JEW `S FEMALE FAMILY MEMBERS HAD NOT BLAMED ME FOR ANY RAPE !!!!! THEN HOW HE CAME TO KNOW ? TO WHOM ? WHEN ? WHERE ? MR.HAPPY HINDU AND SO-CALLED ISSAC JEW BLAMED THE SAME .THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING !!!!! WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM THE WORSHIPPERS OF RAPIST BRAHMA ,VISHANU , INDIR AND MANY MORE EVIL GODS !!!!!

  272. SanJam said

    WHEN MR CHUMBER CANT ANSWER OR REPLY, HE SIMPLY RECLINES IN HIS CHAIR AND START ABUSING HINDUISM AND BRAHMINS, AND MANUWADIS.

    HAHAHHAAHHAHA!!!

    MR CHUMBER,
    I WANT TO SHARE MY ADDRESS, PHONE NUMBER AND EVERY DETAIL SO THAT YOU COULD SEND ME A LEGAL NOTICE.

    I WOULD LIKE TO FACE YOU IN THE COURT.

    I WANT YOU TO SCREAM OUT IN COURT “SANJAM WORSHIPS RACIST, RAPIST, AND FASCIST GODS”

    THEN I WOULD LIKE TO SCREW YOU FOR TRYING TO SUBVERT MY RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF PRACTICING A RELIGION OF MY CHOICE!

    AND BY THE WAY,, YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED WHY YOUR BRETHREN FAIL EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE/ARE GIVEN ALL THE FACILITIES IN AN ENGINEERING INSTITUTION?

    THESE “SO-CALLED” DALITS WERE NOT FROM EXPLOITED LOT, WERE NEITHER DISCRIMINATED OR DOMINATED OR MISTREATED.
    RATHER THEY WERE GIVEN VIP TREATMENT AND BETTER FACILITIES THAN ALL OTHER CANDIDATES.

    RESERVATIONS WILL FAIL ANY COUNTRY.
    QUOTAS WILL DEVOUR ANY SOCIETY.
    CHUMBER LALs ARE INFECTING OUR COUNTRY WITH VIRUS…

    THATS THE JOB OF A VIRUS,,, SUCK ALL THE BLOOD FROM A HOST,, TILL IT DIES!

    MR CL CHUMBER, YOU ARE A MURDERER.

    MURDERER OF MERITOCRACY!

  273. h said

    Mr.HAPPY HINDU ! HAVE YOUR FEMALE FAMILY MEMBERS TOLD THAT I AM RAPIST ? PLEASE CLEAR THIS , THEN I WILL DIALOGUE WITH YOU !!!!!
    —————-

    Chumber,

    you are talking nonsense.

    i am not calling you a rapist. Sanjam is calling you that. Go ask him.

    i only said “i have decided to call you a rapist”…but i did not begin calling you as one. I had a change of heart and i do not wish to call you any names anymore.

    And do not call me Isaac—i already clarified that i am Shem.

  274. SanJam said

    respect begets respect.
    mr chumber, it will hurt you seriously if i start condemning dr ambedkar, mr mandal, lord valmiki or anybody revered by the community that you allegedly represent. nobody likes to hear crap about their loved ones or the ones that they worship.
    mr chumber, i may not be religious, i may be an atheist, totally devoid of understanding the concept of god, divinity, caste, dalits, brahmins, allah or anything at all.
    but there is one thing that i do understand and want to assert. please try not to criticize or use foul language about those who are revered. a huge difference between you and others on this blog is that your outbursts quote fabled history which doesnt have any bearing on present or future of this country. should we start prosecuting germans since they mistreated jews in world war 2? should we start killing spanish people, as they invaded and killed thousands of latin americans?
    history is a subject that teaches us a lesson to prevent mistakes, understand the shortcomings of a particular set-up, evolve to avoid such disasters. japan, had invaded china and inflicted innumerable atrocities, if you could recall “rape of nanjing”. it happened in the first quarter of this century.
    but do you see japan and china fighting each other today? do you chinese foul-mouthing japan in open forums or international meets? japan has publicly apologised for her actions in china, and china forgave them. the people have grown-up. new generations do not nurture hatred, they collaborate, innovate and unite to fight social evils, economic challenges and trade paradigms.
    but, mr chumber, it seems that its impossible for you to come out of the little cocoon of hatred and loathe.
    its very difficult to reason it out with you.
    i saw your pictures on linkdn and few other websites. you look like kind gentleman. but your words on this blog, totally shattered my capability of judging somebody from pictures.
    it seems that if you come across a brahmin in your day to day life, you probably do your best to harm him. coz his ancestors mistreated your ancestors! how logical is that?
    by repeatedly abusing the dieties of hinduism, and delivering your judgements on brahmins and their conspiracies, you have totally lost your credibility. you do not have a sane continuous chain of thought. you are fixated with foul language and abusive retorts against anybody who has respect for his or her faith.
    religion is a total fabrication of mankind. but the greatest religion is the religion of kindness and humane understanding.
    whatever degrades a human being, falls out of the realms of religion. and if any practice or religion prescribes stabbing human dignity, then its better to condemn the sin, and convict the sinner.
    even though muslims are involved in many conflicts throughout the world, i refuse to label all muslims as terrorists, i refuse to hate quran, and i condemn those who stereotype or classify muslims.
    simple logic: bad people belong to this world, and may belong to any faith or religion.
    you cannot pass your verdicts, you cannot point fingers and you cant call me or my god, a racist!
    get all the reservations in the world, so that you and your generations wouldnt have to work to earn.
    seekers of reservation or quota, are nothing but white-collared beggars!

  275. Ramesh said

    Grow up.

  276. C .L . CHUMBER said

    I HAVE COME FROM MY TWO WEEKS TOUR OF MAHARASHTRA,GUJRAT AND ANDHRA PARDESH .MY TWO WEEKS PERIOD ALLOWED TO MANUWADIS TO APPOLOGIZE WHO EVEN ABUSED ME , HAD BEEN COMPLETED ON 16TH INSTANT .NOW I WILL START TO CONSULT MY LEGAL ADVISERS TO TAKE STERN LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THESE MANUWADIS . THEY ARE GIVEN 5 DAYS TIME AGAIN TO APPOLOGIZE BY ABUSING THEMSELVES IN WRITTING IN THE DALITNATION.WORDPRESS . COM SO THAT THE SPIRIT OF DIALOGUE MAY BE REVIVED !!!!!

  277. SanJam said

    CHUMBER,
    WELCOME BACK.

    I ADMIRE YOUR AUDACITY, THAT INSTEAD OF APOLOGIZING TO ALL OF US AND MOST OF THE HINDUS OF THIS COUNTRY FOR ABUSING THEIR RELIGION AND GODS INCESSANTLY, YOU DARE TO EXPECT AN APOLOGY?
    ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR SHITTY MIND?

    LISTEN, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER POLITICAL MONGREL, A FILTHY MOUTHED HATEMONGER, HOPELESSLY INCOMPETENT, TREACHEROUS LIER, PROPAGATOR OF VICIOUS DESIGNS, HOLLOW HOWLING MAGGOT, MISERABLE LOSER AND TOTALLY STUBBORN MULE!

    MR CHUMBER, WHY DONT YOU GIVE A BLOW TO YOUR LEGAL ADVISORS,,, AT LEAST IT WILL GIVE THEM A CASE TO FIGHT OVER YOUR SEXUAL HARASSMENT.. OTHER THAN THAT,, YOU ARE IN KNEE-DEEP SHIT WITH ALL YOUR BASELESS, AIMLESS, FRUITLESS AND UNSUBSTANTIATED ALLEGATIONS ARE TOTALLY DEVOID OF LOGIC AND TEAR APART EVERY CONDITION THAT ENABLES MILLIONS OF INDIANS TO PRACTICE THEIR RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF ANY RELIGION.

    DO YOU THINK BY SPEWING SHIT AGAINST A RELIGION AND ITS FOLLOWERS, YOU WILL BE SAFEGUARDED BY THE LEGAL SYSTEM IN INDIA?
    YOU ARE LIVING IN A MORON’S LAIR…

    SHOVE THE SPIRIT OF DIALOGUE DOWN YOUR SEWER MOUTH TILL SOME BRAIN CELLS GET REVIVED!

  278. happy-hind said

    I HAVE COME FROM MY TWO WEEKS TOUR OF MAHARASHTRA,GUJRAT AND ANDHRA PARDESH .MY TWO WEEKS PERIOD ALLOWED TO MANUWADIS TO APPOLOGIZE WHO EVEN ABUSED ME , HAD BEEN COMPLETED ON 16TH INSTANT .NOW I WILL START TO CONSULT MY LEGAL ADVISERS TO TAKE STERN LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THESE MANUWADIS . THEY ARE GIVEN 5 DAYS TIME AGAIN TO APPOLOGIZE BY ABUSING THEMSELVES IN WRITTING IN THE DALITNATION.WORDPRESS . COM SO THAT THE SPIRIT OF DIALOGUE MAY BE REVIVED !!!!!
    ————————-

    hey bhagwan duniya mein kaise kaise pagal log hain…..why extension for 5 days?

  279. maha said

    mr chumbar..
    i ask a quetion to u. u r saying that reservatios are needed to untouchables. i am agree with u.
    Dr. ambedhkar introduced the reservations to untouchables to glorify them.At time of 1950′s there is untouchability so reservations are needed now a days there is no untouchability.
    so how many years reservations are needed?

  280. Bunt was originally a dravidian Jain community. Around 1200 years ago most of dravidian heritage, culture was looted by brahmins when Saivist and vaishnavites got together during bhakti movemnt. During this movement thousands of Dravidians who followed jainism were killed in one day. Whatever remained were forced to convert to dalitism, the lowest form of Hinduism. Infact Hinduism is nothing, the name hinduism itself came into existence officially in 1830 A.D.

    Infact all the dalits of today were aborginal of bharat land since known history of harappa and mohanjo daro civilization. Indus valley civilization has been historically proved as dravidian civilization who followed jainism. Crafty brahmins( aryans from europe) took over and claimed everything with vedic paint brush. There is not even single evidence of vedic god or heritage in indus valley.

    No wonder even today indus valley historical research has been given up , as more and more evidences were coming against vedic claims. Most of historians are unfortunately brahmins and they made their own history. Thousands of south indian dravidian temples were converted to hindu temples. Dravidian god Adi ( as cited in Thirukural) was renamed as Siva. and brahmins made successful attempt to merge Jainism with hinduism using Siva ( Adinath) and Swasstik which are major evidences of jainism.

    Unfotunately today all the dravids are dalits or untouchable or sudras, or asuras, who are aborginals of country. Sankrit came from latvia, greece and Rome, it is resembling to latvian and greek language. Where as brahmi ( indus language) which is now part of Tamil language.

    All these facts are historically proven and available however not published in India due to hindu hegemony.

  281. Thiruvalluvar was a dravdian saint who followed Jainism but brahims claim him , especially when hinduism did not exist in south india till 4th century a.d.

    Similary brahmins claims indus valley as vedic, specially when india has no known history of horses before 3500years, as such most hindu mythology talk about horses and chariot, which never existed in india till aryans arrived. With this theory it is simple that brahmis came to this land and started claiming everything as their own using vedic brush.

    it is like today red indians are hardly known and converted to christianity by missionaries and europeans. Today north America a land of aborginals is controlled by whites, Same way india was controlled by brahmins since last 3500 years who are from europe.

  282. Poornaprajna said

    Dravidiantruth Please change your Blog Id to Dravidian untruths

    “Bunt was originally a dravidian Jain community.”

    Bunts were neither Dravidian nor Jain.

    The Bunts are ethnically Scythians from central asia. Who originally migrated in 100 BC from Bactria to partia to afghanisthan and india. In north India they were known as Sakas and later Kshatriyas. The bunts came down south and were warriors in the Hoysala, Chalukya and Kadamba Kingdoms. They later turned into land owners. The very word ‘Bunta’ in modern Tulu and Kannada means warrior and is used colloquially withe the same meaning as well. It is derived from the sanskrit word ‘Bhata’ meaning warrior. The Nairs of Kerala and some people of the Shivalli Brahmin community also share the same racial origins. It is quite obvious from the similarities in their physical characterstics.

    The DNA studies on the Bunts have proven that they are of Scythian origin. So your claim that Bunts are Dravidians is absolute and total nonsense. Even a cursory look at the physical characterstics of Bunts who are generally fair in complexion, with light coloured eyes (check out the color of the retina of Aishwarya Rai),high forehead and greek nose will prove that they are not Dravidians. According to your Dravidian theory, the so called Dravidian or aborginals are charecterized by dark complexion, small forehead and snub noses. You would find it very difficult to get any Bunt with such physical charecterstics, unless there is intermingling of races which is possible in many cases.

    The next is on their religion. The Bunts are not Jains they were originally Spirit Worshippers (Bhutas). Even to this day they worship the spirits along with the Hindu panteon of gods like Shiva, Durga, Vishnu and Krishna. The religious belief of the Bunts across ages have reflected the pervailing belief system of Tulu nadu (south Kanara). Initially they were spirit worshippers then due to the advent of Shaivism they incorporated the worship of Shiva without changing their previous worship of the Buthas. The Bunts were also influenced and they patronised Shankaracharya and Madhvacharya who are from the same region of Tulunadu. Even to this day they are patrons of the famous Shri Krishna Temple of Udupi which was founded by Madvacharya. Madhvacharya’s original house called ‘Pajaka Kshetra’ in Udupi was rennovated by a rich Bunt family during the 12th century AD. During the rule of Nayakas of Ikkeri who were jains there were some Bunts who were jains. When Vaishnavism became more pervalent they worshipped Vishnu and Krishna along with the Spirit gods. Even to this day the Brahmins and Bunts of Tulunadu worship the Bhutas along with the Hindu pantheon of Gods. I have witnessed and taken part in the ‘Bhuta Raya’ puja of Sonde Matha of Shri Vadiraja a famous disciple of the Madhva lineage. This is done every dark forthnight. Some of tHe Nayakas of ikkeri who were Jains became brahmins. The surname ‘Nayak’ in south kanara is predominantly found among Gowd Saraswath Brahmins. I want to ask you where are the Dravidians and your dravidian theory here. Nowhere are they in picture or evidence.

    In South Kanara the Brahmins, Jains and Bunts are an almost integrated community with close ties and historical connections. The current Dharmadhikari of famous Manjunatha (Shiva) temple in Dharmasthala, Veerendra Hegde is a practising Jain. He is a well known and famous philanthropist and highly revered by Hindus and Jains across Karnataka. Check it out before creating all these Jains versus Vaishnava Versus Shaiva stories.

    Just go to any Udupi restraunt owned by Kamaths or Pai’s or Madhvas who are all Brahmins, you will usually find the pictures of Bhutaraya, the same diety worshipped by Bunts.

    And what makes you think Jainism is a original belief system of South India. Jainism is an export from North India. Mahavira the 24th thirthankara of Jains was from Bihar. Bahubali of Sravanabelagola was a jain from North India. I am not saying there were no skirmishes, rivalries and fights between these belief systems but they were not in such great magnitude as these psuedo historians concoct. The people who belonged to these different schools shared almost the same culture with minor differences. This is abundantly clear because the communities who beleived in these different systems like Jainism, Shaivism and Vaishnavism are almost same with even shared historical ancestry in many cases.

    In Karnataka if you visit places like Sagara and Moodabidri you can find the mathas or religious foundations of Shaivities, Vaishnavaities and Jains side by side. In some cases sharing the same compound. They do not carry any historical animosity against each other which should have been the case if these conspiracy theorists are right. Of course it is not that they approve of each others belief systems completely. They follow what is broadly called ‘Unity in diversity’. It is not so Black and White or Good and Evil you paint it to be. There are several shades of grey and all the different colours inbetween.

  283. shem-happy-hindu-hh said

    Dear Dravidiantruth,

    Only your first sentence in both posts are right. The rest is wrong.

    The Chalukyas were initially Jains and hence when you say Bunts were initially Jains, I agree with you. But, what were they before they were Jains?

    Instead of using the word ‘brahmin’, i suggest you use the word ‘hindu’, then history will become more understandable sans the political / hatrered angle.

  284. Poornaprajna said

    Dear Dalit Untruth

    “Thiruvalluvar was a dravdian saint who followed Jainism but brahims claim him.”

    The name Thiruvalluvar means Thiru + Valluvar, Thiru means a honorific like ‘Sir’or ‘Sri’ and ‘Valluvar’ means priest. The Buddhists do not have priests and the Jains do not have priests as they are essentially monastics. Only the Brahmins are called priests. Historians of all hues are still not clear about the antecedants of Thiruvalluvar. But let me pose this – What if he was a Jain or Buddhist. There are several instances to prove that Brahmins were also Jains/ buddhists/ vedics/ Mimasakas/Sankhyas. The third section of the Kural, ‘inbam’ talks of the relationship between Man and woman. This is something the jain or buddhist monastics hardly used to speak about. So where does that leave your theory.

    So what’s wrong if Brahmins claim Thirivalluvar and his teachings, does it make them evil. The Thirukural has a high degree of ethical, moral and worldly teaching within itself and I would be happy if anyone of any community claimed it as their own.

    But can you show me any instance where Thiruvalluvar or his work Thirukurral says he is a Dravidian Saint.There are none, unless if there is some version doctored by your great dravidian poet Karunanidhi, the master of conspiracy theories and concoctor of false history.

    Dravidian untruth

    “it is like today red indians are hardly known and converted to christianity by missionaries and europeans. Today north America a land of aborginals is controlled by whites, Same way india was controlled by brahmins since last 3500 years who are from europe.”

    You claim the above that the Hindu religion was no different from the monotheistic christianity. If the Brahmins had controlled so many belief systems there would not be millions of gods, dieties and traditions left in India. Essentially Brahmins went with the flow and incorporated the local dieties, spirits etc into existing pantheon to create a syncretic belief system. This is very much in evidence throughout india where there has been no destruction of the previous but an assimilation, synthesis and morphing of the beleifs and natural evolution. Sorry dude your theories are absolute rubbish. The analogy between red indian and christian missionaries and dravidians and brahmins are utterly wrong.

  285. SanJam said

    beware,,, the brahmins and jews control this world…. ooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh……
    just when i though i had heard of crazy shit in the world… chumber and his dogs walk with the rear view mirror in their hands (tails,, in case of dogs,,, ahemmm:)
    chumber,,, you silly little faggot! tsk tsk

  286. shem-happy-hindu-hh said

    Cool Poornaprajna, Fantastic !!!!!!

    Thanks.

  287. shem-happy-hindu-hh said

    Poornaprajna,

    Thanks for the wealth of info again :-)

    Always delightful to read your posts.

  288. C .L . CHUMBER said

    MR. POORNAPRAJNA IS NOT FANATIC .THE FANATICS ARE THOSE WHO WORSHIP , DEFEND AND GLORIFY THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS !!!!!

  289. San said

    I am not an Upper caste hindu, but I really don’t understand by hating somebody how can people solve problems of the needy. Why doesn’t dalitnation use this site to tell people on what they are doing to uplift the dalits than abuse others. Hating others will not solve the problems. I like Rahul’s post the most. He seems to be like a sensible person.

  290. C .L . CHUMBER said

    MR.HAPPY HINDU & MR. SANJAM ! HINDUS WILL HAVE TO DISCARD THEIRS GODS OR SCRIPTURES TO WASH THE BLOTS ON THEIRS FACES OF WORSHIPING RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!!

    I AM READY FOR LEGAL OR PUBLIC OPINION BATTLES SO THAT THE RAPIST , RACIST AND RACIST EVIL GODS MAY BE EXPOSED NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL LEVELS !!!!! I REQUEST YOU TO DO WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR THE DEFENCE OF YOUR RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS !!!!! NOW YOU ALL HAVE CONFESSED THAT YOU ARE AGAINST RAPISM , RACISM AND FASCISM AS WELL AS BURNT THE MANU-SIMRITY . THEN THE JUDGE WILL ASK YOU THE PROBLEM IN DISCARDING THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS AS WELL AS CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM !!!!! HE WILL ASK YOU WETHER YOU RECOGNIZE THE EVIL GODS OR YOUR SCRIPTURES ? ? ? ? ?
    IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE SCRIPTURES THEN YOUR SCRIPTURES ESTABLISH THAT BRAHMA, VISHANU AND THEIRS INCARNATIONS ARE RAPISTS , RASCISTS AND FASCISTS AND YOU HAVE TO DISCARD THESE EVIL GODS !!!! THE SECOND CHOICE IS , IF YOU RECOGNIZE YOUR GODS THEN YOU HAVE TO DISOWN YOUR SCRIPTURES WHICH ESTABLISH YOUR GODS AS RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!! IT IS SURE THAT YOU HAVE TO LOOSE YOUR GODS OR SCRIPTURES !!!!! COME ON !!!! MY TRUE GODS AS WELL TRUE PEOPLE OF THE UNIVERSE ARE WITH ME !!!!! MY MATAS VARINDA , SITA , RUKAMANI , SARASWATI AND MANY MORE PIOUS AND INNOCENT SAINT SHAMBUK LIKE WHO WERE KILLED BY YOUR EVIL GODS . !!!!!

  291. Armugam said

    Someone told here that Thiruvalluvar is Jain. No he is not.
    Many claims and counter claims arise in this regard.Some claim its jain.Some claim its buddhist.Ifwe analyze thirukural we can find that it echoes vedas word by word.Not a single kural is against vedas.In fact we can say that thirukural is a tamil translation of the sanskrit vedas.

    It starts with “Mathrudevo bhava”.Then it goes on to “pithru devo bhava”.

    “Adhi,bhagavan muthatre ulagu……”.No religion except hinduism worships mother and father.So in the first kural itself valluvar shows that kural is vedic based.

    Then he goes on with vedic dharmas.For example

    “Marappinum othukollal agum.PAARPAN PIRAPOLUKKAM kundra kedum…”

    He says here ” Even if a bhramin forgets vedas its acceptable.But if he leaves his “pirapolukkam”(vedic dharmas) he will be totally ruined”.

    Then he says the sign of society rottening as

    “aapayan kundrum,ARUTHOLILOR nool marappar, kavalan kaavan enin…”

    He calls bhramins as “arutholilor”(people with 6
    duties).He says they will forget vedas,if king doesnt protect them.Sanskrit calls bhramins as “shat karma nirathar” meaning people with 6 duties.

    He mentiones various vedic gods.”indirane salung kari…” and “thamarai kannan ulagu…”.He mentions indra and vishnu.He mentions pancha yagnas in vedas as “thenpulathar deivam virunthokkal than endrangu impulathar ombal thalai…”

    And further he even mentions vedic principle of truth.Vedas defined truth as “sathyam buthahitham priyam…” meaning “words that cause benefit to society are truth…”.Valluvar exactly said this
    principle as “vaimai enapaduvathu yaathenil yaathondrum theemai ilatha solal…”

    And he mentions padivratha dharma too.Vedas say that a padivratha need not worship any god or do anything except praying to her husband.Valluvar says this as “deivam thola al kolunan than tholuvaal peiyena peyum malai…”

    And yagnas are unique to only hinduism.He sings about them too.So to sum up he talks of so many things unique to hinduism like indra,vishnu,vaikunda,(thamarai kannan ulagu),bhramins,pathi vratha
    dharma,worshiping parents,pancha maha yagna etc.And word by word he echoes vedas.So we can say that thirukural is a complete vedic book.

  292. Armugam said

    valluvar has said “piravi kadal neendhuvar neendathar,iraivanadi seruvar serathar”

    rebirth doesnt exist in any other religion except hinduism, Jainism and buddhism.Buddhism and Jainism doesnt believe in god.The only religion which believes in reincarnation and god is hinduism.

  293. Armugam said

    A clear cut proof that Thiruvalluvar was a Prapan ie Brahmin and not a Jain or buddhist from the verses of the Kural itself. This also shows how much of wrong propoganda has been created against Brahmins –
    People who spout this nonsense that he was Jain or Buddhist should provide evidence to back this up.

    Again let us see some kuraLs. Let us finally decide on these Dravidian Truths and Un truths. As a dravidian I feel cheated by these dravidian propoganda scamsters for misleading us.

    1. KuraL 413 -> People who receive “seviyuNavu” (wisdom) compared to devas who received “aviyuNavu” – havishyannam. Offering ‘havis’ oblation to devas is a distinctive vedic practice. Haviryaga is one of the 3 types of yaga.
    2. KuraL 25 -> Indra himself praises the ascetics. Indra, the Rig vedic God is mentioned by name.
    3. KuraL 617 -> Ill luck will be there with lazy fellow. With a person with manly effort, lotus-seated Goddess Lakshmi would stay.
    4. KuraL 543 -> King’s sceptre should protect the virtues and vedas of brahmins.

    The statement about a brahmin forgetting his vedas is already mentioned above.

    Now, Valluvar mentions vedic god by name, displays aspects of ‘hindu culture’ and mentions the importance of brahmin’s learning. I have provided necessary evidences from KuraLs themselves.

    If somebody claims Valluvar learned good things from buddhists, jains, jehova witnesses, mormons and african Yorubas, they should back that claim with evidence.
    Nowhere he mentions samaNars who are well known for their absolute ahimsa – even in “pulAl maRuthal” adigaram. He could have easily mentioned it there.

    He doesn’t mention anywhere about bodhi dharma, anatta: non-self, or buddhist sanghas or uses buddhist terminology, though he mentions fire oblations to devas, Rig vedic god Indra, lakshmi, vedas and the like.

    One cannot claim both – (a) brahmins were spiritual people during valluvar’s time. So, one should not take ‘brahmins per se’ when he mentions that brahmins should be protected by the King, as well as (b) he learnt good things from bauddhas, jains and the like.

    We have a contradiction – either bauddhas and jainas were non-existent during valluvar’s time and he did not mention them or they indeed were there and he even learnt a few good things from them; but did not find them ‘spiritual enough’ so that he excluded them and mentioned only brahmins worthy to be protected by the king.

    Pick your choice.

  294. happyshemhindu said

    Armugam,

    It is belived by some genetists that the brahmin community together with the non-brahmin land owning communities have existed in tamilnadu since ~3500 years. This is long before any known jain and buddhist period.

  295. c.l.chumber said

    MANUWADI MINDED ABUSERS MUST BE DISCARDED BY THE DALIT-NATION AS WELL AS BY THE http://DALITNATION.WORDPRESS.COM .

  296. C . L . CHUMBER said

    MR.HAPPYHEM HINDU ! IF YOUR SISTER IS DIVORCED BY HER HUSBAND , THEN YOU WILL FEEL THE SORROWS OF MATA SITA AND MATA RUKAMANI !!!!! MATA SITA PREFERED TO SUICIDE THAN TO ACCOMPANY CRUEL KING RAM !!!!!

    happyshemhindu said,
    September 26, 2008 @ 9:20 am
    Again you profess Mata Sita but without her Ram. Poor mata Sita. How much She must have yearned for Her husband in the forest. But now, even in memories you will seperate them.

    Even Rukmani will also feel so bad if you seperate Her from her Krishna. You are creating Divine Divorces and new history.

  297. hindushemhappy said

    MR.HAPPYHEM HINDU ! IF YOUR SISTER IS DIVORCED BY HER HUSBAND , THEN YOU WILL FEEL THE SORROWS OF MATA SITA AND MATA RUKAMANI !!!!! MATA SITA PREFERED TO SUICIDE THAN TO ACCOMPANY CRUEL KING RAM !!!!!
    ——————–
    Chumber,

    Now i think you are really a crank.

    If someone gets divorced, does it affect the political economy of the country?

    Does it help in reducing corruption? Help grow the country in terms of opportunities, etc?

    So where does being stuck on a few dumbedkar-versions of your own history, take you to? An asylum?

    Grow up Chumber. How old are you btw?

  298. C . L . CHUMBER said

    MR. HAPPY HINDUS ! ONLY THE BEARER KNOWS WHERE THE SHOE PINCHES !
    MANUWADI MINDED MALES MADE THE LIVES OF THE WOMEN THE HELLS ! THE MANUWADI MINDED MEN DO NOT RECOGNIZE WOMEN AS EQUAL TO MEN . IF A MALE IS FEMINIST , HE IS NOT MANUWADI . HE IS A RESPECTABLE MAN . WE WEL COME HIM !

  299. hinduhappyshem said

    MR. HAPPY HINDUS ! ONLY THE BEARER KNOWS WHERE THE SHOE PINCHES !
    MANUWADI MINDED MALES MADE THE LIVES OF THE WOMEN THE HELLS ! THE MANUWADI MINDED MEN DO NOT RECOGNIZE WOMEN AS EQUAL TO MEN . IF A MALE IS FEMINIST , HE IS NOT MANUWADI . HE IS A RESPECTABLE MAN . WE WEL COME HIM !
    ————-

    You again have a dumbedkar version of who is a femnist by equating that to so-called ‘manuwadi’ stuff….man, i feel like silly for talking to a loony like you for so long without relaizing that indeed you must be a looony to be so repititive and so stuck…

  300. mesquiteice said

    Dear Chumber,

    Do you have any idea as to what Manuwadi minded females think?

  301. C . L . CHUMBER said

    PLEASE READ THE VAIDIK ABUSIVE LANGUAGE OF THE VAIDIK PEOPLE !!!!!-(1)

    Onecleanbloke said,
    December 14, 2007 @ 9:08 am
    The author of the article is an IDIOT .

    Ruhi said,
    December 14, 2007 @ 5:54 am
    Never read a more ridiculous post in my life.

    Ruhi said,
    December 14, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
    Shows how educated you are or how much you really understand.
    I don’t know from where you got all this crap information

    Venugopal said,
    December 27, 2007 @ 6:28 am
    These people who have written this has no brians. what a stupid thing to call aishwarya as dalit. Just because some idotic dalit scholar VT rajshekar is bunt caste.

    Praf t said,
    January 8, 2008 @ 5:49 am
    This guy dalit nation is a muslim mullah trying to divide hindus.

    Indopilia said,
    January 11, 2008 @ 7:56 am
    people like you who support it are absolute morons who talk about all high
    sounding words. Can there be anything more ridiculous than this article

    Shankara said,
    January 13, 2008 @ 6:34 am
    It is incumbent on me to reply on these IDIOTIC subjects written by this ACIDHEAD who claims to be representing Dalits and a so called dalit nation and also respond to ‘Fallen Monk’. First this is an extremely IDIOTIC article and quite COMICAL also
    Can it get more absurd than this.
    these proselytizing religions are encouraging a malicious campaign
    This is an old evangelical and mulla claim on Hinduism
    shows your extraordinary stupidity

    Shankara said,
    January 14, 2008 @ 7:54 am
    You just parrot and repeat the same accusations on the Brahmins as said by
    Islamists, evangelists, marxists and vicious subalterns like this dalit nation
    Your words are filled with lies and malicious propoganda
    It is foolish to talk about caste in this present day and age.

    Dilip Muralidaran said,
    January 21, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
    Sajor Carlos: Fantastic. I have been waiting for a rabid Christian fanatic like you to blabber your rubbish so that i can ask you some sensible questions for which you can provide straightforward, direct, honest and sensible answers.
    i ask why is your bible god so blood thirsty a bitch?

    Peppi Mint said,
    January 21, 2008 @ 1:25 pm
    This blog is discussing aishwarya rai and how she has been exploited – thats what this JOKER who wrote it claims.

    Kripal said,
    January 22, 2008 @ 9:33 am
    Do you think these dalit nations and dalit voice and these JOKERS can do any harm to hinduism. Like BARKING DOGS these people BARK at hinduism.
    .
    Rajputana said,
    January 24, 2008 @ 9:37 am
    Don’t repeat the same NONSENSE and no buyers of your POPYCOCK history. Ambedkar has written in his ‘Annhilation of Caste’ that castes are not races (not that whatever Ambedkar writes is true. He was as much part of the imperialist conspiracy of distorting history. He always was a Bristish ASS LICKER).
    Man what an IDIOT you are.
    Go get some brain cells MORON
    You show again what an extrordinary MORON you are
    Ambedkar actually would have pPROSTITUTED his followers to any one of these religions. But his personal ambitions came in between. If Ambedkar had converted to Islam he would have become a nobody. He would have changed his name to some Abu Baker or some shit like that and would have been a nobody. If he had converted to christianity he would have again been swallowed up by the bishops and pastors. He was quite a CUNNING GUY and he converted to Buddhism which he didn’t realize is Hinduism ITSELF..

  302. C . L . CHUMBER said

    MR . HAPPY HINDU ! ADI-MAHABHAGWAN VALMIKI WAS A SAGE OR DACOIT BELONGING TO VALMIKI TRIBE OR BRAHMAN ? ? ? ? ?

    h said,
    September 5, 2008 @ 2:59 pm

    Chumber, i too am from a Valmiki tribe admiture.- –

    NOBODY REMEBERS VALMIKI AS ANYTHING ELSE BUT A SAGE. Nobody is branding nobody. Yes, he is a Sage. He is divine.

    h said,

    June 4, 2008 @ 9:42 am

    Valmiki was a Kirata and from the Bhil hunting tribe and a dacoit BEFORE he became a brahmin.
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin/

    i

  303. C . L . CHUMBER said

    HURRAH ! MR. HAPPY HINDU HAS DISCARDED HIS RAPIST GODS !!!!!
    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr. Happy Hindu @ happyhindushem @ lavnya @ shem said ( September 30, 2008 @ 2:39 am ),”My Gods did not rape. Why should I discard them .”
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/beware-of-meditation/#comment-1769
    My ANSWER IS ;- Mr. Happy Hindu was a staunch follower of Vishanu who raped Adi-mata Varinda w/o Adi-mahabhagwan Jalandhar as recoeded in the Padam Purana , the district Jalandhar`s gazeteer published by the Punjab government and the Hindi movie the ” Tulasi Vivah .”
    Now Mr.Happy Hindu was fed up of rapist Vishanu .He discarded him by writing that he had no rapist God ! i already said that vaidik people have to discard either the evil Gods or their scriptures . He pefered scriptures to the evil Gods . He already took stand against rapism , racism and fascism . He also took stand that every body had burnt the Manu-simrity !
    I congrtulate Mr. Happy Hindu for this development in the history of India . I wish him success in the war against the rapism , racism and fascism !!!!!

  304. hindushemhappy said

    MR . HAPPY HINDU ! ADI-MAHABHAGWAN VALMIKI WAS A SAGE OR DACOIT BELONGING TO VALMIKI TRIBE OR BRAHMAN ? ? ? ? ?

    h said,
    September 5, 2008 @ 2:59 pm

    Chumber, i too am from a Valmiki tribe admiture.- -

    NOBODY REMEBERS VALMIKI AS ANYTHING ELSE BUT A SAGE. Nobody is branding nobody. Yes, he is a Sage. He is divine.

    h said,

    June 4, 2008 @ 9:42 am

    Valmiki was a Kirata and from the Bhil hunting tribe and a dacoit BEFORE he became a brahmin.
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin/
    —————–

    Chumber,

    You are an IDIOT. (Why Have you NOT filed a case in court yet. I am waiting).

    To IDIOTS like you, nobody can explain what is a brahmin.

    YOU are a dacoit of all spiritual sentiments.

    A LIAR LIKE YOU CAN NEVER BE SPIRITUAL.
    NOBODY CAN EXPLAIN ANYTHING SPIRITUAL ABOUT ANY RELIGION TO YOU. BECAUSE YOU CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND.
    YOUR BRAIN WIRING IS DESIGNED TO BE A LIAR AND A MANIPULATOR.

  305. hindushemhappy said

    CHUMBER,

    Why are you repeating everybody’s statements. All can read.

    WHY DO NOT YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES FROM YOUR FIRST POST TO LAST.

  306. C . L . CHUMBER said

    INTERCASTE MARRIAGES BREAK THE TRADITIONAL IDEALISM THAT IS BEING CONTINUED IN THE NAME OF HONOUR AND REPUTATION !!!!!-PARVEEN .
    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr./Mr./Miss.Praveen said http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/aishwarya-rai-a-victim-of-brahmin-conspiracy/#comment-1917( October 3, 2008 @ 6:29 am ) ,” Not only brahmins, all other forward caste people think that intercaste marriages bring bad reputation to their castes. There is nothing wrong if dalits marry forward caste women. Intercaste marriages break the traditional idealism that is being continued in the name of honor and reputation.”
    MY VIEWS ARE : -FIRST OF ALL , I WEL COME PARVEEN FOR CONSTRUCTIVE E-DIALOGUE . I AM STRESSING ON DISCARDING THE CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM INVENTED BY THE HINDU GOD BRAHMA AND MANTAINED BY VISHANU AND HIS INCARNATIONS .THAT IS WHY I CALL THEM RACIST AND FASCIST . BRAHMA TRIED HIS BEST TO RAPE HIS OWN DAUGHTER .THAT IS WHY ADI-MAHABHAGWAN SHIV BEHEADED BRAHMA . BRAHMA`S BROTHER INDER ABDUCTED A GUJJAR CASTE GIRL GAYATARI TO BE BRAHMA`S WIFE FOR THIS BRAHMA`S WIFE CURSED BRAHMA .
    HINDU GOD VISHANU ALSO RAPED ADI-MATA VARINDA W/O ADI-MAHABHAGWAN JALANDHAR ( PLEASE READ THE PADAM PURAN , THE JALANDHAR DISTRICT GAZETEER PUBLISHED BY THE PUNJAB GOVERNMENT AND THE MOVIE TULSI VIVAH ) .THAT IS WHY I HAVE TO DECLARE THEM RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS .
    NOW WE COME TO THEIR FOLLOWERS . THEY STILL WORSHIP , DEFEND AND GLORIFY THESE EVIL GODS . DR. AMBEDKAR WROTE TO DYNAMITE THE VEDAS . IF WE WISH TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY EXTRA SUPER POWER AND TO CREATE THE EGALITARIAN SOCIETY THEN WE HAVE TO DISCARD THESE CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM AS WELL AS EVIL GODS . AS LONG AS THESE EVIL GODS`IMAGE IS NOT TARNISHED , WE CAN NOT BRING A TRUE REVOLUTION IN INDIAN SOCIETY .
    AS RESPECTED MR./MRS./MISS PARVEEN RIGHTLY WROTE ,” There is nothing wrong if dalits marry forward caste women. Intercaste marriages break the traditional idealism that is being continued in the name of honor and reputation.” THE VAIDIK PEOPLE CRITICIZED BITTERLY AND EVEN ABUSED ME FOR MY VIEWS IN SUPPORT OF INTERCASTE / INTERVARNA MARRIAGES .
    IN PUNJAB , BABA SANT RAM B.A.( KUMHAR B.C. BY CASTE ) FOUNDED THE JAAT PAT TODAK MANDAL . HE EVEN MARRIED HIS CHILDREN IN OTHER CASTES .BABA MANGU RAM MUGGOWALIA ALSO UNITED THE 36 EX-UNTOUCHABLE CASTES TO BREAK THE CASTE BARRIERS . BABA SAHIB AMBEDKAR DID HIS SECOND MARRIAGE INTER VARNA . SHAHID-E-AZAM SAHIB KANSHI RAM ALSO STARTED MOVEMENT ” JAATI TODO SAMAJ JODO MEANS BREAK THE CASTE SYSTEM TO UNITE THE SOCIETY ! “.
    THE NEXT STEP IS TO ARRANGE INTERCASTE MASS MARRIAGES BY THE GOVERNMENT AND THE POLITICAL , SOCIAL AND RELIGIOUS ORGANISATIONS . BREAK THE CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM TO STRENGTHEN THE DEMOCRATIC AND SECULAR CONSTITUTIONAL SET UP . I THANKS PARVEEN FOR HIS FREE AND FAIR VIEWS .

  307. Indian said

    First of all, I am a Brahmin and belong to a family of religious brahmins that have own the temple in their street.
    What I find funny is that all these discriminations and rituals of discriminations of dalits as you call them are unknown to anyone in my family … all you dalits have been repeating the same stories of discrimination for ages now, and its about time you realized most of the other people don’t even care what caste you’re from. The only reason some of the dalits are called the Backward Class is because they’re so backward in their history and current events … we’ve moved on and know of nothing that you speak, its you who keeps discriminating yourself with these articles and comments

  308. C . L . CHUMBER said

    CHUMBER HATE POVERTY AND RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!!
    CHUMBER LOVE EQUALITY , LIBERITY , FRATERNITY AND JUSTICE !!!!!

    shemahinduhappy said,
    October 2, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
    ” (4) CHUMBER LOVES POVERTY AND WANTS POOR PEOPLE TO REMAIN POOR ALWAYS
    Chumber has admitted that his top priority is NOT eradication of poverty. He wants people to remain poor and keep begging for reservations so that they will keep voting for him. I can prove this also in court.”
    MY ANSWER IS : -
    RESERVATION IS NOT BEGGING . IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT OF RESERVE CATAGORIES AND INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDUS INCLUDING MR. HAPPY HINDUS ARE AGAINST THE RESERVATION AS WELL AS THE RESERVE CATAGORIES !!!!! THE JAGO PARTY IS GOING TO CONTEST ELECTION ON THE ISSUE OF RESERVSTION BAN . WE ARE ALSO PLANING THAT IF THE ELECTION COMMISSION OF INDIA PERMITS THE ANTI -CONSTITUTIONAL RESERVATION PARTY THEN WE WILL ALSO FIGHT ELECTION AGAINST THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS AS WELL AS THE CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM !!!!!

  309. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,

    Reservation may not be begging. But asking for reservation is.

    My full support to JAGO party!

  310. dakrishnasi said

    CHUMBER HATE POVERTY AND RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!!
    CHUMBER LOVE EQUALITY , LIBERITY , FRATERNITY AND JUSTICE !!!!!
    ————————-

    Mr.Dumbedkar,

    Everyone is tired of listening to you singing your paens. Everyone knows reservations are meant to benefit the poor. But the poor do not get benefitted because of politicians like you.First you file a case, then talk.

  311. C . L . CHUMBER said

    CHUMBER IS DEADLY AGAINST THE INDO-ARYANS` RESERVATION ON CASTE/VARNA SYSTEM BASIS !!!!! CHUMBER DEMANDED BAN ON CREAMY LAYER FOR GOVT. JOBS TO BENEFIT THE POORS OF INDIA BUT THE HAPPY HINDUS OPPOSED !!!!! WHY THIS DOUBLE STANDARD ? ? ? ? ?

    mesquiteice said,

    October 8, 2008 @ 6:07 am

    Chumber,

    Reservation may not be begging. But asking for reservation is.

    My full support to JAGO party!
    dakrishnasi said,

    October 8, 2008 @ 10:27 am

    Mr.Dumbedkar,

    Everyone is tired of listening to you singing your paens. Everyone knows reservations are meant to benefit the poor. But the poor do not get benefitted because of politicians like you.First you file a case, then talk.

  312. SanJam said

    WOW,,, perfect… reservations means giving crutches,,, and its the best way to let so-called-dalits understand that quota is a bread crumb thrown at them.
    we should also ensure that when a dalit cricketer enters the ground to bat, he’s given 4 runs to walk-in.
    and a dalit hockey player, should be awarded a goal immediately,, as soon as he wears his shin guards.
    same for football dalit players…
    lol…
    we all will have so much fun! can you imagine?

  313. C . L . CHUMBER said

    ” OUR GODS WERE NEITHER RAPISTS NOR RACIST NOR FASCIST .” HURRAH ! MR. HAPPY HINDU FINALLY ADMITTED !!!!!
    THEN BRAHMA , VISHANU AND THEIR INCARNATIONS ( WHO WERE RAPIST,RACIST AND FASCIST GODS AS PER SCRIPTURES OF THE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIKS ) ARE NOT THE GODS OF MODERN INDO-ARYAN VAIDIKS !!!!! NOW M/S. HAPPY HINDUS WILL DISCOVER OR INVENT THEIR NEW GODS . I HOPE THEIR NEW INVENTED / DISCOVERED GODS WILL BE DEADLY AGAINST THE RAPE AND CASTE/VARNA SYSTEM !!!!!

    shhhapinendupy said,
    October 10, 2008 @ 2:58 am

    MR. MESQUITEICE ! WHY DO NOT YOU VAIDIK PEOPLE ACCEPT THE TRUTH THAT YOUR VAIDIK INDO-ARYAN GODS WERE RAPIST, RACIST AND FASCIST EVILS ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN SCRIPTURS ? ? ? ? ?-C . L. CHUMBER
    ————–

    Mr.Dumbedkar,

    Post was to Mesquiteice. But i am writing in between. Want to tell you that you are a liar. OUR GODS WERE NEITHER RAPISTS NOR RACIST NOR FASCIST . It is mullahs-commies-missionaries who are making up and propagating all lies about hindusim, to create divisions. And dumedkar politicians like you want to make a living out of it. For once, drop your politician stand, be with yourself for a few min and listen to this: It is mullahs-commies-missionaries who are making up and propagating all lies about hindusim, to create divisions. And dumedkar politicians like you want to make a living out of it. For once, drop your politician stand, be with yourself for a few min and listen to this:
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/brahmin-heads-citigroup/#comment-2364

  314. C . L . CHUMBER said

    HURRAH ! MR. HAPPY HINDU FINALLY DISCARDED BRAHMA`S INVENTED CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM !!!!!
    NOW M/S HAPPY HINDUS SHOULD ARRANGE INTERCASTE / INTERVARNA MARRIAGES IN THEIR FAMILIES , RELATIVES AND FRIEND CIRCLE TO BE TRUE INDIAN !!!!!

    dakrishsina said,
    October 12, 2008 @ 6:01 am

    ” In the present era of liberalization there is no room for caste – it will be gone anyways, since it was never meant to exist in the first place; neither did it ever exist in ‘reality’. But only politicians want it to stay – what for? Can we not be happy just being INDIAN ? ”
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/brahmins-destroyed-the-dravidian-indus-valley-civilization/#comment-2371

  315. hindushemhappy said

    CHUMBER IS DEADLY AGAINST THE INDO-ARYANS` RESERVATION ON CASTE/VARNA SYSTEM BASIS !!!!! CHUMBER DEMANDED BAN ON CREAMY LAYER FOR GOVT. JOBS TO BENEFIT THE POORS OF INDIA BUT THE HAPPY HINDUS OPPOSED !!!!! WHY THIS DOUBLE STANDARD ? ? ? ? ?
    ————————-

    Did i tell you that I opposed ban on creamy layer? I ask for ban on all forms of reservations. You repeatedly prove that you are a person on non-sane memory and a mad man Chumber.

  316. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,

    You said “MR. MESQUITEICE ! WHY DO NOT YOU VAIDIK PEOPLE ACCEPT THE TRUTH THAT YOUR VAIDIK INDO-ARYAN GODS WERE RAPIST, RACIST AND FASCIST EVILS ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN SCRIPTURS ? ? ? ? ?-C . L. CHUMBER

    My answer: Simple. 1) Nobody believes in stories of hatered and fault finding
    2) We respect others beliefs. We dont want disturb them
    3) We dont want to hate each other based on stories

    By the way the thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people.

    There are stories that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old!.

    Are you telling that we should talk bad about the prophet based on a false story like the above. You should be ashamed to talk bad about the prophet because all Muslims believe that Muhammad was sinless in the sense of transmitting the revelation.

    I would rather believe that he was a good person rather than a bad person, because there are so many people who believe he is good. One insane guy writing bad things cannot defeat the faith of all our muslim brothers and sisters.

  317. C . L . CHUMBER said

    I AM READY TO DARE CHALLENGE THE WORSHIPERS , DEFENDERS AND GLORIFIERS OF RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS AND INVENTORS OF THE CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM !!!!! I AM READY TO DRINK A BOWL OF POISON LIKE SOCRATE BUT I WILL NOT SURRENDER TO THE BARBARIAN INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDUS !!!!! THE WAR AGAINST THE EVIL GODS AND THEIR EVIL FOLLWERS WILL BE FOUGHT IN THE COURTS ACCORDING TO THE DR. AMBAWDEKAR @ DR. AMBEDKAR`S CONSTITUTION !!!! ALL HINDU SCRIPTURES ARE READY FOR REFERENCES .A PERSON WHO HAVE NOT ONE HIS NAME AND ADDRESS IS GOING TO FILE A CASE . HE HAS PUBLISHED MY TWO EMAILS ADDRESSES IN THIS BLOG . BUT HE DID NOT DARE TO PUBLISH HIS OWN EMAIL ADRESSES IN THIS BLOG .COME ON !!!!!

    hindushemhappy said,
    October 14, 2008 @ 1:11 am

    If you and the owner of this blog do not give your name and address within the next 3 days, then a FIR will be filed against you for sedition, anti-Indian government stand, hurting religious sentiments and inciting communal divide.
    If we cannot find this blog’s owner / writer, then you Chumber will face charges for both of you together.

    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/dalits-must-agitate-for-reservation-in-private-sector/#comment-2416

  318. C . L . CHUMBER said

    MR. KARTHIKEYAN JI ! RAVAN WAS NOT LUSTFUL ! HE HAD A GOOD CHARACTER THAT IS WHY HE DID NOT RAPED SITA EVEN IN HIS CUSTODY .BUT RAMA BANISHED INNOCENT AND PIOUS SITA .WHY ? RAMA HAD NOT DONE JUSTICE TO HIS WIFE !

    Karthikeyan said,
    October 8, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

    Chumber Ji,
    Rama need not have to prove his purity because he was in the company of his brothers/friends/sages all the time in exile. But Sita was in the forcible possession of lustful wicked demon. She was in the midst of all stranger men for several years. So she was required to prove her purity. Clear?
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin/

  319. C . L . CHUMBER said

    RAVAN WAS NOT LUSTFUL ! HE HAD A GOOD CHARACTER THAT IS WHY HE DID NOT RAPED SITA EVEN IN HIS CUSTODY .BUT RAMA BANISHED INNOCENT AND PIOUS SITA .WHY ? RAMA HAD NOT DONE JUSTICE TO HIS WIFE !

    Karthikeyan said,
    October 8, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

    Chumber Ji,
    Rama need not have to prove his purity because he was in the company of his brothers/friends/sages all the time in exile. But Sita was in the forcible possession of lustful wicked demon. She was in the midst of all stranger men for several years. So she was required to prove her purity. Clear?
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin/

  320. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,

    Dont think anybody who drinks poison is socrates. Even if socrates did not drink poison, he would still be a great man. UNDERSTAND

    All That Glitters Is Not Gold

  321. hindushemhappy said

    I AM READY TO DARE CHALLENGE THE WORSHIPERS , DEFENDERS AND GLORIFIERS OF RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS AND INVENTORS OF THE CASTE / VARNA SYSTEM !!!!! I AM READY TO DRINK A BOWL OF POISON LIKE SOCRATE BUT I WILL NOT SURRENDER TO THE BARBARIAN INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDUS !!!!! THE WAR AGAINST THE EVIL GODS AND THEIR EVIL FOLLWERS WILL BE FOUGHT IN THE COURTS ACCORDING TO THE DR. AMBAWDEKAR @ DR. AMBEDKAR`S CONSTITUTION !!!! ALL HINDU SCRIPTURES ARE READY FOR REFERENCES .A PERSON WHO HAVE NOT ONE HIS NAME AND ADDRESS IS GOING TO FILE A CASE . HE HAS PUBLISHED MY TWO EMAILS ADDRESSES IN THIS BLOG . BUT HE DID NOT DARE TO PUBLISH HIS OWN EMAIL ADRESSES IN THIS BLOG .COME ON !!!!!
    ———————————–

    Chumber,

    I had already published my name and blog address on this site, but your blog owner removed it. Ask him why.
    Next, i am only sending a lawyer’s notice to both of you.

    You talk tooooooo much. Give your address. Give this blog owner’s name and address. Then talk.

  322. Karthikeyan said

    no no Chumber Ji, Ravana was not all good. Sita devi protected herself with the help of grass and agni.

  323. C . L . CHUMBER said

    I WILL EXPOSE THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST EVIL GODS SO THAT THEIR EVIL FOLLOWERS WILL EITHER DISCARS THEM OR WILL SUICIDE LIKE KING RAMA IN DEPPRESSION !!!! SOME OF THEM ARE NOW FREQUENTLY ABUSE IN FRUSTRATION !!!!!

    mesquiteice said,
    October 15, 2008 @ 8:10 am

    Chumber,

    Dont think anybody who drinks poison is socrates. Even if socrates did not drink poison, he would still be a great man. UNDERSTAND
    All That Glitters Is Not Gold

  324. C . L . CHUMBER said

    WHY RAM`S FATHER ( ? ) DASARATHA MADE PREGNANT HIS WIVES BY HIS GRAND SON ( DOHTA-SON OF ONE`S DAUGHTER ) RISHI SHARINGI ?????
    Dear Viewers ,
    In September , 2008 , I visited the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute -411004 .It was founded on July 6, 1917 and is a public organisation registered under Act 21 of 1860 AD . It is partly supported by annual earmarked grants from the Maharashtra Government which nominates five representatives on the Regulating Council and two on the Executive Board .The institute has also received grants from the Government of India and the University Grants Commission for special research projects . This institute is known for its world famous” Critical Edition Of the Mahabharta ” which costs Rs.19,000/- !
    I purchased only two books on Mahabharta ( 1986 AD ) and Ramayna ( 1994 AD ) both written by Mr. M.R.Yardi .Some fanatic manuwadis lost in dialogue in protecting theirs rapist , racist and fascist evil Gods and abused me in writting frequently in the dalitnation . wordpress.com .This confirms that the manuwadis can not dialogue .They impose their views dictatorly and if they fail then they lost temper . They even called me rapist , racist and fascist without any evidence in frustration ! It is the biggest ever irony in the world`s history and mythology that the followers and defenders of rapist , racist and fascist evil Gods blamed others so bitterly !!!!!
    I am a member of a self-respectful family and a citizen of a India like country . I will answer him / them in a very cultured way with references so that no one in future can behave like this .
    I hereby reproduce Mr.M.R.Yardi`s book ” The Ramayna : Its Origin and growth ” as below with courtesy :-
    ” Rishi Shranga was the son of sage Vibhandka . He was brought up by his father in complete isolation from the rest of the world , so that he had not come into the contact with women .When the kingdom of Anga suffered from a severe famine , king Lomapaada was advised that if he could bring Rishi Saranga there , the rain would come and bring prosperity to his kingdom . The ascetic youth was enticed with the help of beautiful harlots and later given princess Shanta in marriage . In some Ramayna versions ( Buckle, para 343 ) , Shanta is said to be THE DAUGHTER OF DASARATHA ,GIVEN BY HIM in adoption to his friend Lomapaada . DASARATHA BROUGHT THE SAGE TO AYODHYA TO PRESIDE OVER HIS ASHAVMEDHA SACRIFICE IN ORDER TO GET SONS ( 1 . 8 . 10 . ) ”
    I WILL NOT COMMENT ON THIS UNETHICAL STEP OF DASARATHA IN DETAIL . BUT THIS IS A BEFITTING REPLY TO THOSE MANUWADIS WHO TRIED THEIR BEST TO ESTABLISH ADI-MAHAGURU KABIR AS HARAMZADA IN VAIN .THIS CONFIRMS THAT RAM AND HIS STEP BROTHERS ARE NOT SONS OF DASARATHA !!!!! ACTUALLY THEY WERE THE SONS OF THEIRS SISTER`S SON WHO MADE PREGNANT RAM`S MOTHER AND STEP-MOTHERS .THE SARITA FORTNIGHTLY , DELHI ALSO PUBLISHED BABU JAGJIVAN RAM`S ( DY PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA ) INTERVIEW IN 1980 AD IN WHICH HE HIGHLIGHTED THIS UNETHICAL BIRTHS OF RAM AND HIS STEP-BROTHERS !!!!! I WILL DISCUS IT LATER ON .( PLEASE READ PAGE NO. 210-11 OF THE ABOVE CITED BOOK )

  325. Karthikeyan said

    Too much Chumber Ji… Dasharatha performed Puthra Kameshti sacrifice and got children. Scriptures are written by sages and they are only appropriate for religious reading. Your prescribed book may not be. Or who knows.. it may be a book worth reading. Your excerpts from it might be usual Chumberwadi misrepresentation. I don’t care about it.

  326. C . L . CHUMBER said

    THEN SITA COULD BE PROTECTED FROM FOREST TO SRI LANKA !!!!!
    Karthikeyan said,

    October 15, 2008 @ 3:34 pm

    no no Chumber Ji, Ravana was not all good. Sita devi protected herself with the help of grass and agni.

  327. lokeshwar said

    please award NOBEL PRIZE for the author
    thanks

  328. C . L . CHUMBER said

    M/S HAPPY HINDUS ! WILL LAKSHMAN RAPE MY MOTHER AND SISTERS? ? ? ? ?
    ( PLEASE DON`T ERASE IT )
    lavanya said,
    October 17, 2008 @ 6:07 pm

    Karthikeyan,
    e) inciting communal divide and promoting hatered amongst communities and religions living at peace; by word (dalitnation) and by word and deed (chumber).

    SanJam said,
    October 15, 2008 @ 8:39 pm

    chumber,
    lakshman didnt get his wife along so that he could screw your mum or sisters!
    got it?
    if you havent, you gotta do some serious questioning around ur den,,, or also check out some ripped clits///
    tadahttp://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin/

  329. C . L . CHUMBER said

    DEAR LOKESHWAR ! PLEASE WRITE THE NAME OF THE AUTHOR/ ABUSERS !!!!!
    lokeshwar said,

    October 18, 2008 @ 3:07 am

    please award NOBEL PRIZE for the author
    thanks

  330. C . L . CHUMBER said

    HURRAH !!!!!
    M/S HAPPY HINDUS ( LAVNYA AND MANY MORE NAMES ) TERMED MR. SANJAM`S VAIDIK ABUSIVE LANGUAGE AS ” SICK LANGUAGE ” !!!!!

    lavanya said,
    October 16, 2008 @ 4:05 am

    Chumber,
    Btw, did you parents and forefathers teach you to repeat Sanjam’s type of sick language?
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin/#comment-264

  331. lavanya said

    M/S HAPPY HINDUS ! WILL LAKSHMAN RAPE MY MOTHER AND SISTERS? ? ? ? ?
    ————-

    Sanjam wrote that. You ask him. Do not ask me.

  332. C . L . CHUMBER said

    PROPHET MOHAMMED MARRIED AYISHA ( AS YOU WROTE ALREADY ) BUT VISHANU RAPED ADI-MATA VARINDA !!!!!
    VAIDIK GOD BRAHMA ALSO TRIED HIS BEST FIVE TIMES TO RAPE HIS OWN DAUGHTER BUT ADI-MAHABHAGWAN SHIV BEHEADED HIM TO SAVE HIS ( BRAHMA`S ) DAUGHTER TO BE RAPED BY A FATHER !!!!!
    YOU PEOPLE BLAME THAT RAVAN ABDUCTED SITA .
    LAKSHMAN RAPED HIS SISTER SURAPNAKHA THAT IS WHY HE REVENGED BUT HE DID NOT RAPED WITH SITA !!!!!
    VAIDIK HINDU GOD BRAHMA ABDUCTED MATA GAYATARI WITH THE HELP OF INDIRA TO BE BRAHMA`S WIFE !!!!!

    DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS ?
    DO YOU FEEL THAT INDO-ARYAN VEDIK HINDU GODS WERE BAD ( RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST ) PERSONS ? ? ? ? ?
    I will post ” HOW VAIDIK GOD BRAHMA ABDUCTED GAYATARI TO BE HIS WIFE ” after your views on RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU GODS !!!!!.

    Mesquiteice said,
    October 16, 2008 @ 4:40 am
    Chumber,
    you answered one part of my post. Do you agree with the other part also about the prophet and ayisha and do you feel that the prophet muhammed was a bad person.

    I will post my answer after your views on prophet.
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin/#comment-2632

  333. Samukham-Venkata said

    PROPHET MOHAMMED MARRIED AYISHA ( AS YOU WROTE ALREADY ) BUT VISHANU RAPED ADI-MATA VARINDA !!!!!
    ———–
    Will you consummate your marriage with a 9-year old girl? Will your 9-year old daughter agree?

    ———————
    VAIDIK GOD BRAHMA ALSO TRIED HIS BEST FIVE TIMES TO RAPE HIS OWN DAUGHTER BUT ADI-MAHABHAGWAN SHIV BEHEADED HIM TO SAVE HIS ( BRAHMA`S ) DAUGHTER TO BE RAPED BY A FATHER !!!!!
    ————————–
    From where did you get this story?

    ——————————
    YOU PEOPLE BLAME THAT RAVAN ABDUCTED SITA .
    LAKSHMAN RAPED HIS SISTER SURAPNAKHA THAT IS WHY HE REVENGED BUT HE DID NOT RAPED WITH SITA !!!!!
    ———————–
    Lakshman did not rape Surpanakha.

    ———————————————
    VAIDIK HINDU GOD BRAHMA ABDUCTED MATA GAYATARI WITH THE HELP OF INDIRA TO BE BRAHMA`S WIFE !!!!!
    ——————————-
    Again, from where did you get this story?

    —————————
    If characters in history kept names after the vedic objects of veneration, and if they did some deeds, then it is their story or history-like Purana.

    You are out to hate. You need to locked up in a mental asylum for latent paedophilia.

  334. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,

    So you feel that a 9 year old girl knows what is marriage. Is that marriage at all. Fooling a girl into the bed before she even attains the age is also and act of duping. Fine.

    Therefore by your own logic before proceeding further you should discard the prophet, and islam itself is a religion that should be discarded because it is based on Child Abuse.

    I feel that an adult intercourse is not as bad as an intercourse with a 9 year old child.

    Dont you realise that Islam is not all about one ayisha and one muhammad. It is a belief that lingers in the hearts of millions. Similarly hinduism is not about one rama and one brahma. Religions are not so much about facts, they are about the beliefs of people. They dont actually exist, they are believed to be true. Why do you get into other peoples beliefs. If one guy wants to worship ravana, no one has a problem. Thats your wish. But the problem with you is you are abusing others beliefs, that too without a reason. Is any body forcing you to worship brahma/vishnu etc. Is any one forcing you not to worship Allah. Why are you disturbing others and creating problems.

    Beliefs are like life, you dont know where how what etc. but you know it is there. Use your brains to help people and not to hurt others.

    I am anyway forced to tell you the following to clarify certian things:-
    As you should know, RAPE is an act of forcing an other person into sexual intercourse against their will. An act of disguise is not rape because Mata Vrinda also consented to the act. May be the it was a case of disguise.

    Whereas to have sex with a 9 year old (under the guise of marriage) shows that you have forced the girl even before her body was ready for penetration.

    However, such an act need not automatically amount to rape, since Ayisha may have consented to such entry. However, a 50 year old normal person can never have sex with a 9 year old child.

    As far as your story that brahma raped his daughter / or lakshman raped surpanaka, I have no idea, nor will i waste any time looking into it.

    Assuming that lakshman and surpanaka had an affair is none of your / my botheration.

    Any ways, I should clarify here that I am not in support of the acts of voilence against women appearing in various stories that you quote. I am only telling that your stories have no basis. You cannot prove one single thing of your stories.

    Every time I tell you that these are stories, you are asking “Why people read stories””Why fictions are wriiten etc”

    You have to prove any thing which you say. any thing without proof is not even worth the bytes that is wasted to host such crap.

    I also want to check out as to how being a father of a girl child, you talk such crap mr. chumber. It is pathetic . May be once in a while you get rascals which rape their own daughters, but dont project them and discuss too much about such things as this is more devastating to the daughters rather than fathers. All girl children will become afraid of their fathers. No girl child will be able to enjoy fatherly love is a situation of fright.

    Cant you not think about good things, Cant you not talk about good things

    LOVE is the greatest force and i swear by it. And i am sure it will defeat HATE

  335. Karthikeyan said

    eye opening thought mestiquitice ji :) hatss off!!

  336. Venkata said

    Mesquiteice,

    Just as you clarify abt Mata Vrinda. I also want to clarify this:

    This is how different authors wud have written stories abt Ahilya-Indra in different ages:

    1) 500AD:
    Kamasutra times. Liberal, Mature society. Puranic times. Writers who wrote for this kind of a soceity wud have described Ahilya as a willing partner of Indra, who bore Vali to him. She also bore Sugriva to Surya. Left abandoned and alone like a stone by Gautama for her dalliances, she waited for spiritual succor from Rama, whose upadesam might have led to her mukti.

    2) 1300AD:
    Changing times. Muslim inquests. Social ideas of what is moral and immoral changed. A writer in this time wud have described Ahilya as someone who got ‘deceived’ by Indra.

    3) 1850AD:
    British times. Heightened levels of ignorance. Ahilya gets described as a victim of rape, by some wannabe-authors.

    4) 2001AD:
    Technology times. Ignorance evened out by information. But kali-yuga ensures krodham, aavesham, etc, in all. Political writers abound. Ahilya gets “used” as an object to justify conversion. Puranic Indra gets “linked” to Indra from the Vedas, due to wanton cupidity with a ‘motive’.

    The likes of Chumber will also, ofcourse, conveniently ignore that Rama liberated Ahilya from her curse, no matter in which version of the story.

    Vedic Indra in the Rig is an element of nature, and nothing but thunder and lightening (that which bring rains).

    People like Chumber will now hold on to the story from 1300Ad-2001AD versions, to make “politics” or should i add “conversions” out of it.

    Suppose his son is called Indra and my son is called Indra, one did good things, other did bad things, both get written down (either as real-event stories or as fiction imagined stories, depending on the writer), so who is responsible for that now?

    And using these rubbish stories, he will justify that entire hindusim is made of all so-called rapist, fascist, whatever gods..what a dumb crank fellow.

  337. C . L . CHUMBER said

    RAM MURDERED INNOCENT AND PIOUS SHUDAR SAINT SHAMBUK , SITA BANISHED AND SHE WAS HUMILIATED TO SUICIDE ON THIS DIWALI DAY !

    THE DIWALI AND HOLI FESTIVALS ARE SEASONAL FESTIVALS NOT RELIGIOUS FESTIVALS ! BUT THE MANUWADIS MAKE THESE FESTIVALS CREATING NOISE POLUTION , AIR POLUTION AND MUD SLASHING FOR OTHERS AND EARNING RS.IN BILLIONS AND TRILLIONS FOR THEMSELVES !
    THERE WILL BE NO PEACE , LIGHTS AND JOY UNTIL OUR INDIA IS NOT LIBERATED FROM THE FOLLOWERS OF THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCITS INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU GODS !!!!!
    RAM MURDERED INNOCENT AND PIOUS SHUDAR SAINT SHAMBUK , SITA BANISHED AND SHE WAS HUMILIATED TO SUICIDE ON THIS DIWALI DAY !THAT IS WHY WE DO NOT CELEBRATE THE DEWALI .
    WE PLEDGE TO ESTABLISH THE CONSTITUTIONAL EQUALITY , LIBERITY , FRATERNITY AND JUSTICE TO EVERY CITIZEN OF THE UNIVERSE !!!!!

  338. C . L . CHUMBER said

    THE FOLLOWERS , DEFENDERS AND GLORIFIERERS OF THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU GODS ARE NOW GOING TO DERECOGNIZE THEIR SCRIPTURES TO SAVE THEIR EVIL GODS !!!!!

    Dear Viewers ,
    Mr.Samukham-Venkata ( October 21, 2008 @ 2:07 pm ) in response to my answer ,” PROPHET MOHAMMED MARRIED AYISHA ( AS YOU WROTE ALREADY ) BUT VISHANU RAPED ADI-MATA VARINDA !!!!! ” said ,” Will you consummate your marriage with a 9-year old girl? Will your 9-year old daughter agree? ”
    MY ANSWER IS :- First of all , all M/S HAPPY HINDUS including new Mr .Samukham -Venkata did not condemned the rapist Vishanu and are defending , worshiping and glorifying continuously .But they are condemning a married couple .I ask them what was the age of Ram and his brothers at the time of their marriages .When Vishavmitra asked Dasrath to hand over his sons Ram and Lakshman to finish the Rakshas , Dasrath said his sons are just children ! Ram and Lakshman went directly to the swambar to marry Sita and Urmila respectively .
    These fellows are so irrational and brought my daughter in this discussion .This is the standard of ethics of the Indo-Aryan Vaidik Hindus !
    ( 2 ) Then they in response to my answer ,” VAIDIK GOD BRAHMA ALSO TRIED HIS BEST FIVE TIMES TO RAPE HIS OWN DAUGHTER BUT ADI-MAHABHAGWAN SHIV BEHEADED HIM TO SAVE HIS ( BRAHMA`S ) DAUGHTER TO BE RAPED BY A FATHER !!!!! ” commented ,” From where did you get this story? ”

    MY ANSWER IS : – THIS IS NEITHER STORY NOR BRAHMA AND SHIV ARE MYTH . YOU ARE BRAHMINS AND YOU KNOW VERY WELL THE SOURCES .

    (3) Then they in response to my writing ,” YOU PEOPLE BLAME THAT RAVAN ABDUCTED SITA .LAKSHMAN RAPED HIS SISTER SURAPNAKHA THAT IS WHY HE REVENGED BUT HE DID NOT RAPED WITH SITA !!!!! ” commented ,” lakshman did not rape Surpanakha.”

    MY ANSWER IS : – Please read the Valmiki Ramayna with care . You people never condemned the rapist Brahma , Vishanu and their incarnations which is authenticated by your scriptures !
    (4)They in response to my writing ,” VAIDIK HINDU GOD BRAHMA ABDUCTED MATA GAYATARI WITH THE HELP OF INDIRA TO BE BRAHMA`S WIFE !!!!! ” commented ,” Again, from where did you get this story? ”

    MY ANSWE IS : – Please read the judgement of a court at Ajmer ( Rajasthan ) regarding the dispute between the priests of Brahma and his wife`s temples situated at Pushkar district Ajmer published in the Indian Express ,Chandigarh edition dated 1st July , 1997 .BUT YOU WILL NEVER CONDEMN BRAHMA BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE WORSHIP , DEFEND AND GLORIFY THE RAPIST, RACIST AND FASCIST INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU GODS !!!!! SHAME .
    (5) If characters in history kept names after the vedic objects of veneration, and if they did some deeds, then it is their story or history-like Purana.

    MY ANSWER IS : – THE BRAHMA ,VISHANU AND THEIR INCARNATIONS ARE NOT ONLY CHARACTERS OF VEDAS,PURANAS , RAMAYNA AND MAHABHARTA BUT ALSO CHARACTERLESS CHARACTERS !!!!!
    (6)You are out to hate. You need to locked up in a mental asylum for latent paedophilia.
    MY ANSWER IS :-You people worship,defend and glorify the fascists as Gods .I can never love these evil Gods and their evil followers .Indeed your manuwadi brains are locked having no keys to open !!!!! PLEASE COME ON FOR E-DIALOGUE WITH OPEN MIND !

  339. what a joke said

    LOL LOL LOL
    This is a humor blog, right?
    or does the author really believe in this nonsense he wrote?

  340. I can undertand the anger lurking in the Dalit community and opinions such as those expressed in this blog are testament to that.

    However, I find this blog laughable. The author claims to be an intellectual and claims to have worked with acclaimed indivduals and had conversations at Oxford. The posting of such utter rubbish does not support that claim.

    Aiswarya Rai grew up in Mumbai and no one gave any importance to her “caste”. When she was involved with Salmaan Khan, the Bunt boys made it an issue. Salman abused her and in one instance she was treated for cuts around her eyes. Why such intelligent women get involved with brutes is beyond me. It has to do with young women being attracted to “protector’ types who are “bad boys”. It is a universal phenomena. The nice guy gets ignored and the bad boys get the babes. At a later stage the woman realizes her mistakes and seeks out the “provider” type, who were the nice guys she ignored. Regarding comments on her acting, the Hindustani media can be petty at times and speak subjectively rather than objectively. The desi critique takes upon himself/herself to criticize rather than praise.

  341. bhala Manoos said

    Hinduism doesn’t require any god to survive. Unlike the abhramic religions it doesn’t require any central figure (God or Gods) as u say to exist. The religion is so sound that it can destroy gods or create new ones in light of superior knowledge. It has evolved of the cumulative thought processes of many human beings. It didn’t start by throwing away all old knowledge and it will not stop at any moment . It doesn’t assume that there may be no better brain or suprior human being (compare this with jesus and Mohamad).
    Hinduism draws it energy from the philosphies and knowledge over the period of thousand of years every evolving and correcting .

    So Stop barking Chumber

  342. mesquiteice said

    Bhala manoos,

    Your words ooze clarity and truth. thanks. Any religion which gives importance to a person and not the values cannot provide a platform to value Knowledge.

    But I wish to clarify your position slightly. Christianity is not about JESUS CHRIST. Christianity is about the message that Christ preached. It is about love, unconditional and universal. May some christians have wrongly understood that christianity is about JESUS CHRIST.

    Anyone who is able to shower similar kind of unconditional / universal love is the true christian. Any christian who preaches hatered towards other religions is not a true christian.

    The greatest victories of mankind have been achieved only by LOVE and not WAR.

    LOVE is the greatest force and it is only a matter of time before it wipes out HATE.

    Love is knowledge; Hate is Ignorance
    Love is courageous; Hate is fear
    Love is a result of strength; Hate is result of weakness
    Love is all pervading : Hate is self destructing
    Love is Victory : Hate is Failure
    Love is Happiness ; Hate is Sorrow

    Loving other religions is the strength of Hinduism. As you said it is because of the fact that it allows a person to be knowledge centric rather than peson centric.

    The world of Love beckons all of us!

  343. venksamuk said

    MY ANSWER IS :- First of all , all M/S HAPPY HINDUS including new Mr .Samukham -Venkata did not condemned the rapist Vishanu and are defending , worshiping and glorifying continuously .But they are condemning a married couple .I ask them what was the age of Ram and his brothers at the time of their marriages .When Vishavmitra asked Dasrath to hand over his sons Ram and Lakshman to finish the Rakshas , Dasrath said his sons are just children ! Ram and Lakshman went directly to the swambar to marry Sita and Urmila respectively .
    —————————
    Child marriages were common in the past. But child marraiges were not consummated, until puberty ceremony was performed. In the past, even in my grandmum’s (70 years back) and my mum’s time (50 years back), women came of age only around 15. Certainly not at 9 years.

    ——————————————
    These fellows are so irrational and brought my daughter in this discussion .This is the standard of ethics of the Indo-Aryan Vaidik Hindus !
    ————-
    This shows your sick standards and absent ethics. You do not want you daughter to be brought into the discussion, but you are capable of repeating sanjam’s type of sexual language for others. To top it, you are actually Defending the fact that Ayesha was “Raped” (yes, raped, but for you “married”) by Muhammad, in the name of a sham-marriage.

    Even now, go and see in charminar area in hyderabad, young girls (sometimes 10 years old) are so poor, they are sold (for mehr) in a sham-marriage to old senile muslim men. After 2-3 days, all they need to do is to say talaq 3 times. What a mockery of values they have made. You are ofcourse, 100% a mad mullah.
    —————–

    Then they in response to my answer ,” VAIDIK GOD BRAHMA ALSO TRIED HIS BEST FIVE TIMES TO RAPE HIS OWN DAUGHTER BUT ADI-MAHABHAGWAN SHIV BEHEADED HIM TO SAVE HIS ( BRAHMA`S ) DAUGHTER TO BE RAPED BY A FATHER !!!!! ” commented ,” From where did you get this story? ”
    MY ANSWER IS : – THIS IS NEITHER STORY NOR BRAHMA AND SHIV ARE MYTH . YOU ARE BRAHMINS AND YOU KNOW VERY WELL THE SOURCES .
    ———–
    If you do not know the source, it means some political writer has cooked up and spread this story. Prove to me where did you get this tory from. You already lied like a miserable idiot about Manusmrithy. Do not run away by giving dumb answers like this.
    ——————

    (3) Then they in response to my writing ,” YOU PEOPLE BLAME THAT RAVAN ABDUCTED SITA .LAKSHMAN RAPED HIS SISTER SURAPNAKHA THAT IS WHY HE REVENGED BUT HE DID NOT RAPED WITH SITA !!!!! ” commented ,” lakshman did not rape Surpanakha.”
    MY ANSWER IS : – Please read the Valmiki Ramayna with care . You people never condemned the rapist Brahma , Vishanu and their incarnations which is authenticated by your scriptures !
    ———————-
    Mr.Blatant Liar, Have you read the Valmiki Ramayan with care? Surpanakha fell in love with Ram. When he spurned her, she wanted to venge him by striking a love relationship with Lakshman. But when she tried to charm Lakshman, he cut off her nose. Rape in hindu shastras means directly hell. This is what your religion preaches Chumber, have a look: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781

    ——————————–
    (4)They in response to my writing ,” VAIDIK HINDU GOD BRAHMA ABDUCTED MATA GAYATARI WITH THE HELP OF INDIRA TO BE BRAHMA`S WIFE !!!!! ” commented ,” Again, from where did you get this story? ”
    MY ANSWE IS : – Please read the judgement of a court at Ajmer ( Rajasthan ) regarding the dispute between the priests of Brahma and his wife`s temples situated at Pushkar district Ajmer published in the Indian Express ,Chandigarh edition dated 1st July , 1997 .BUT YOU WILL NEVER CONDEMN BRAHMA BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE WORSHIP , DEFEND AND GLORIFY THE RAPIST, RACIST AND FASCIST INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU GODS !!!!! SHAME .
    ——————-
    Chumber, if someone tells you in the present time, that he descended from damn village (tribal) king called raja harishchandra, will you beleive him? Some idiotic people tried to use a cooked up story to make money out of temple-rights in Pushkar. Which stupid court in the world will accept cases filed on such ridiculous stories? Maybe 20 years later, your daughter might file a case by quoting something from Chumber-smrithi like an extension of your idiocy. When I myself do not accept such rubbish stories, who are you to tell me that my religion must be made of these stories?

    You mullahs think everything that is in the book must be followed, that is how your dumb brain work – since they are made not to work. We do not follow books, we hindus search for, understand things from various books, and choose / make our own paths.
    ———————————-

    (5) If characters in history kept names after the vedic objects of veneration, and if they did some deeds, then it is their story or history-like Purana.
    MY ANSWER IS : – THE BRAHMA ,VISHANU AND THEIR INCARNATIONS ARE NOT ONLY CHARACTERS OF VEDAS,PURANAS , RAMAYNA AND MAHABHARTA BUT ALSO CHARACTERLESS CHARACTERS !!!!!
    ————————————-
    Mr.Idiot, The time difference between the vedic period and puranic period is so large. How can Indra from Vedas be the same Indra from the Puranas. That means Hussein, the grandson of Muhammad, is the same as Hussein, your grandfather? If you do not understand these things, then why do you keep braying like a donkey?
    ——————————–

    (6)You are out to hate. You need to locked up in a mental asylum for latent paedophilia.
    MY ANSWER IS :-You people worship,defend and glorify the fascists as Gods .I can never love these evil Gods and their evil followers .Indeed your manuwadi brains are locked having no keys to open !!!!! PLEASE COME ON FOR E-DIALOGUE WITH OPEN MIND !
    ———————
    What is your definition of an open mind? If you cannot, who the hell are you to force others to follow your mad-liar ways? You are a dumb narcissist Chumber. Even a lawyer dismissed you straight-away as a lunatic, not worth even looking at your face from any other website. But dude, you are in for a major overhaul in other ways. The law needs just one push, to push you to it. And considering your loose mouth, it is very easy to push you there. Keep braying, we need the hee-haws.

  344. C.L .CHUMBER said

    HURRAH ! MR. BHALA MANOOS ( GENTLEMAN ) IS GONG TO REVIVE HINDUISM WITHOUT ( INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST FALSE ) GODS !!!!!
    I HAD ALREADY PREDICTED THAT THE VAIDIK HINDUS MAY DISCARD THEIR FALSE GODS OR THEIR SCRIPTURES BUT THEY MAY NOT DISCARD THEIR VAIDIK-ABUSIVE LANGUAGE !!!!! WE WELCOME THE SOME FERMENTATION IN VAIDIK HINDU MINDS !

    bhala Manoos said,
    November 1, 2008 @ 11:10 pm

    Hinduism doesn’t require any god to survive. Unlike the abhramic religions it doesn’t require any central figure (God or Gods) as u say to exist. The religion is so sound that it can destroy gods or create new ones in light of superior knowledge. It has evolved of the cumulative thought processes of many human beings. It didn’t start by throwing away all old knowledge and it will not stop at any moment . It doesn’t assume that there may be no better brain or superior human being (compare this with Jesus and Mohammad).
    Hinduism draws it energy from the philosophies and knowledge over the period of thousand of years every evolving and correcting .

    So Stop barking Chumber

  345. C.L .CHUMBER said

    THE STAUNCH ADDICTED FOLLOWER OF RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCIST FALSE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK GODS CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE DEFINITION OF OPEN MIND BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE MIND TO HATE THE EVILS ! ! ! ! !

    Venksamuk said,
    November 6, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
    What is your definition of an open mind? If you cannot, who the hell are you to force others to follow your mad-liar ways?

  346. tom said

    Dalits are ones who can’t come up in life without the reservation system. Dalits want to be doctors while they get the least score, they want to be architects without being able to spell words. When they get sick, they want Brahmin doctors… Get over it… you moron…
    Let us see if they can even survive without the damn reservation system. Guess who is paying all the taxes to support all you dumb dalits. It’s the middle class brahmins…

  347. C.L .CHUMBER said

    A BRAHMAN MR. ATAL BIHARI BAJPAYEE EX PM OF INDIA DID NOT FIND EVEN A SINGLE MERITORIOUS BRAHMAN DOCTOR IN INDIA OR EVEN IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES TO OPERATE HIS KNEE !!!!!
    HE HAD TO OPERATE HIMSELF FROM A NON-BRAHMAN FOREIGNER DOCTOR !!!!!
    MR. TOM ! BE GENTLEMAN .THE MEDICAL PROFESSION IS DISCARDED FOR BRAHMANS IN BRAHMAN SCRIPTURES !!!!!

    WE ABORIGINAL INDIANS PAY MANY TIMES MORE INDIRECT TAXES TO GOVERNMENT THAN BRAHMANS !!!!!
    THE DALITS SETTLED IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES DO NOT NEED RESERVATION DUE TO A BETTER SYSTEM THAN MANUWADI SYSTEM IN INDIA !!!!!

    Tom said,
    November 9, 2008 @ 7:41 pm

    Dalits are ones who can’t come up in life without the reservation system. Dalits want to be doctors while they get the least score, they want to be architects without being able to spell words. When they get sick, they want Brahmin doctors… Get over it… you moron…
    Let us see if they can even survive without the damn reservation system. Guess who is paying all the taxes to support all you dumb dalits. It’s the middle class brahmins…

  348. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,

    I do not like to support any person based on caste, but since you are abusing all brahmins it is my duty to reply to you on behalf of them, they are also my brothers and sisters as much as you, which is why i and replying as under:

    True, Mr. Vajpayee could not find any brahman doctor because you people have not allowed any brahman to be a doctor(based on caster reservation). The few brahmin guys who get to study are highly sought after all over the world and are taken up for major research and development. Such a great person like Mr. Vajpayee had to suffer because of you people and your hatered towards brahmins.

    By admitting that you pay more indirect taxes, you have understood that non-brahmins buy lot of stuff. Most percentage of brahmins are poor and cannot by costly items like you guys. Any way indirect tax is paid because you are spending so much money. If you are spending on cigarette why are you crying to pay the indirect tax. There is nothing great about paying indirect tax because it is a part of business and is paid our of business income. Whereas direct taxes are ones paid by middle class montly income persons.

    You said “THE MEDICAL PROFESSION IS DISCARDED FOR BRAHMANS IN BRAHMAN SCRIPTURES ”

    Please explain where and why

    What about all the 18 siddhars.

  349. lavanyamura said

    THE STAUNCH ADDICTED FOLLOWER OF RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCIST FALSE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK GODS CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THE DEFINITION OF OPEN MIND BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE MIND TO HATE THE EVILS ! ! ! ! !
    —————-

    Brainless lunatics like you are to be taken pity upon.
    How to hate a poor boy with no brain who cannot provide any answer to any question asked; but can only repeat stuff like a standard tape-recoder jammed up inside the head.

  350. C.L .CHUMBER said

    HURRAH !
    MR. HAPPY HINDU @ LAVANYAMURA @ LAVANYA ( AND MANY MORE ILLEGAL NAMES ! ) ADMITTED FINALLY THAT BRAHMA , VISHANU AND THEIR INCARNATIONS ” In hindu texts, those that have raped have only been burned to ashes.” !!!!!

    BUT HE NEVER DISCARD HIS ABUSIVE VEDIK LANGUAGE ,” Barking dogs try to bite but can never bite.”

    OUR TRUE GOD WON OVER THE FOLLOWERS , DEFENDERS AND GLORIFY OF RAPISTS , RACIST , FASCIST AND FALSE INDO-ARYAN VEDIK GODS ULTIMATELY !!!!!
    SATYA MEV JAYATEY BY E-DIALOGUE !!!!!

  351. C.L .CHUMBER said

    LET JUSTICE BE DONE,THOUGH THE HEAVENS FALL !-WilliamWatson,1602AD .
    BE YOU NEVER SO HIGH , THE LAW IS ABOVE YOU !. – Thomas Fuller

    Law is a bottomless pitch. – J. Arbuthnot -Title of a Pamphlet , 1700 AD.

    Law grinds the poor , and rich men rule the law.-Goldsmith – The Traveller

    The jury system puts a ban upon intelligence and honesty , and a premium upon ignorance , stupidity and perjury .- S.L.Clemens( Mark Twain ) – Roughing It
    .
    Delay of justice is injustice . – Lanoor

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS JUSTICE – IN OR OUT OF COURT .
    * Clarence Darrow , 1936 AD

  352. C.L .CHUMBER said

    THE BRAHMAN COMMUNITY COULD NOT PRODUCE EVEN A SINGLE MERITORIOUS DOCTOR IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WHO COULD OPERATE A BRAHMAN MR. A.B. VAJPAYEE`S KNEE !!!!!

  353. Dr. M.R.Satish Rao said

    Dear Friends,
    I have been following the conversations here for some time.
    As a clinical psychaitrist working as a registrar in Manchester NHS hospital, I can clearly pronounce that Mr C.L.Chumber has gone insane based on the evidence available through his posts. He needs help and compassion. I wish to ask the people here if they know the family members of Mr C.L.Chumber please tell them to admit him to a good psychatric ward. It is never too late. C.L. Chumber is in the middle stage of madness and his constant obsession with words like rape etc and continous repitition of the same themes in his posts clearly prove his insanity. Compunded to this Mr Chumber is also getting older and senile dementia has set in. If left untreated Mr Chumber can go into a permanent state of mental hallucination and madness. Mr Chumber also has lost most of his reasoning and cannot carry on intelligible conversations with people. Hence I request anyone here if you know the family members of Mr Chumber, please contact them and tell them about his sorry condition. He needs immediate treatment and confinement in a psychaitric ward. He also needs to stay away from computers and internet for some time as he is inclined to start his mental recording of rapism, fascism etc.

    The treatment
    Chumber should not be allowed to read books which talk of hatred and violence. he should instead be given to read romantic literature and poems of Shakesphere, Wordsworth, Kalidasa etc. No political books to Chumber. As a doctor I would have preferred him not to read at all but that is difficult as Chumber reads a lot of books and very habituated to reading. Reading is a good habit but in some cases like Mr Chumber it can lead to madness. He should stay away from books related to Hinduism, religion in general, Buddhism, Ramayana, Puranas, Ambedkar, Dalits etc. He can read murder mysteries and science fiction and watch movies on these subjects.
    He should also stop reading the many newspapers he reads everyday. He is unable to handle and digest the news and current affairs information.
    Chumber should practise watching cartoon movies like donald duck, tom and jerry etc. This will relax his stressed brain cells and CNS.
    Chumber should follow a strict regimen of exercises like walking, yoga, pranayama.
    Apart from ingesting the prescribed Benzodiapines like valium chumber should exercise caution in his dietary habits.
    Chumber should also try to learn some musical instrument like violin, piano, table. It can give him a lot of relief.
    Gardening for few hours a day is also a good activity for the patient.

    Mr C.L. Chumber has lead a responsible life and raised a good and healthy family. It would be unjust that at his old age he should fall prey to compulsive obsessive insanity. But with good treatment Chumber can spend his old age in a good quality lifestyle and peace.

    Thanks.
    Dr M.R.Satish Rao
    Senior Registrar
    Old Clapham Hospital, Manchester, U.K

  354. lavanyamur said

    HURRAH !
    MR. HAPPY HINDU @ LAVANYAMURA @ LAVANYA ( AND MANY MORE ILLEGAL NAMES ! ) ADMITTED FINALLY THAT BRAHMA , VISHANU AND THEIR INCARNATIONS ” In hindu texts, those that have raped have only been burned to ashes.” !!!!!

    BUT HE NEVER DISCARD HIS ABUSIVE VEDIK LANGUAGE ,” Barking dogs try to bite but can never bite.”

    OUR TRUE GOD WON OVER THE FOLLOWERS , DEFENDERS AND GLORIFY OF RAPISTS , RACIST , FASCIST AND FALSE INDO-ARYAN VEDIK GODS ULTIMATELY !!!!!
    SATYA MEV JAYATEY BY E-DIALOGUE !!!!!
    —————–

    Chumber,

    First, thanks for bringing back the laughs…

    Second, your above post means you have only continously lied about rape related to hindu faith. So, I will never discard my Gods.

    Third, a mad liar can you can never discard your abusive language for hindu faith and hindu gods. So, you will continue to bark.

    Fourth, You contradicted yourself in your post about your “true god” (allah?). Then you say your true god has won!!

    Chumber, you are a clown now.

  355. Mesquiteice said

    Dear Dr. Rao,

    I do feel pity for this man. Hopefully someone from Chumber’s family will see it.

    Thanks

  356. C.L .CHUMBER said

    THE BRAHMAN COMMUNITY WHICH COULD NOT PRODUCED EVEN A SINGLE MERITORIOUS DOCTOR TO OPERATE A BRAHMAN MR. VAJPAYEE , NOW PRODUCED / HIRED A MERITORIOUS DOCTOR M.R.Satish Rao , Senior Registrar ,
    Old Clapham Hospital, Manchester, U.K WHO IS A ADDICTED FOLLOWER , DEFENDER OF THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS !!!!!
    M/S HAPPY HINDUS LOST THE E-DIALOGUE AND THREATS TO LEGAL WAR INCLUDING ONE SIDE VAIDIK ABUSIVE WAR ! NOW THEY STARTED THE MEDICAL WAR .THEY ALSO WILL LOST THIS WAR !!!!! OUR ULTIMATE AIM IS TO BAN WORSHIPING THE FALSE GODS , LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THE WORSHIPERS OF FALSE GODS AND CONVERT THE FALSE RELIGIOUS PLACES INTO THE HOSPITALS , SCHOOLS , OLD AGE CENTRES , VOCATIONAL EDUCATION CENTRES SO THAT THE PEOPLE MAY BENEFIT .

  357. C.L .CHUMBER said

    THE WARRIOR IS KNOWN WHO DARE TO FIGHT FOR ETHICS AND HE / SHE MAY CUT INTO PIECES BUT NEVER SURRENDERS HIS / HER BATTLE FIELD – ADI-MAHAGURU KABIR .

    WIN WITH DETERMINATION .- GURU GOBIND SINGH JI .

    KHUDI KO KAR BULAND ITNA , KE KHUDA BANDEY SE KHUD PUCHHEY ” BTAA TERI RZA KIYA HAI !!!!! – MOAMMAD IQUBAL .

    GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES .- ENGLISH PROVERB

    A PERSON WHEN BORN , HE/ SHE CRIES AND THE PEOPLE SMILE !
    WE MUST DO SUCH A HIGH LEVEL DEEDS SO THAT AT OUR DEATH PEOPLE WEEP BITTERLY AND WE SMILE !!!!! – ADI-MAHAGURU KABIR .

    MOTHER AND MOTHER LAND ARE BETTER THAN THE HEAVENS !!!!! – ADI-MAHABHAGWAN VALMIKI .

    YOU PEOPLE SAY THEM THE GODS OF THE UNIVERSE , WE SAY THEM LUSTFUL
    – ADI-MAHAGURU RAVIDAS

    THE UNTOUCHABLES ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE THEY LOST THEIR INDEPENDENT STATE !!!!! – ADI-MAHAGURU RAVIDAS

  358. C.L .CHUMBER said

    M/S HAPPY HINDUS NEED NOT TO BOTHER FOR ME , I AM QUITE WELL !!!!!

    THEY SHOULD WORSHIP , DEFEND AND GLORIFY THEIR UNETHICAL GODS SO THAT THEIR DOCTORS MAY DECLARE THEM MENTALLY SOUND !!!!!

    Mesquiteice said,
    November 12, 2008 @ 9:35 am

    Dear Dr. Rao,

    I do feel pity for this man. Hopefully someone from Chumber’s family will see it.

    Thanks

  359. lavanyamura said

    Chumber,

    Are you writing so many proverbs to show that your brain is working fine ?

    To me, you are just a manipulative politician. But to others, you are mad.

    We do not know what type of person you are in real life.

    Maybe you are a kind soul indeed. But on the wrong path.

    I cannot convince a lawyer to file anything against you. Because the lawyer is so sure that you are not mentally ok. And according to the law, a mad man’s words cannot be used in court.

    Everyone wants the country to progress. By attacking religion, no has ever prospered.

    In Java, Cambodia, Thailand, etc, now even Afghanistahn, people like to preserve their temples, statues. But in India you want to convert it into some other public use. Actually i do not mind. Atleast that way temples will get revived instead of going into ruins.

  360. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,

    expressions of the soul can never be curtailed limited.

    Examples:
    Just like a true lover loves his loved one, wheter or not they like it
    Just like a true mother who loves her child, wheter or not it likes her.

  361. C.L .CHUMBER said

    IN DECEMBER 2008 , I WILL FILE A CASE IN THE PEOPLE`S PARLIAMENT !!!!!

    I WILL ARRANGE 75 PRESS CONFERENCES IN INDIA AND ABROAD TO COMMEMORATE SHAHID-E-AZAM SAHIB KANSHI RAM `S BIRTH PLATINUM JUBILEE COMMENCING ON 15TH MARCH 2009 .THERE WILL BE A LAST PRESS CONFERENCE IN FRESNO , CALIFORNIA ( USA ) IN DECEMBER , 2009 WHERE OUR GREATEST INDIAN FREEDOM FIGHTER , FOUNDER OF THE ADI-DHARAM BABA MANGU RAM MUGGOWALIA MIGRATED IN DECEMBER , 1909 AD .

    MR.LAVANMUR ! YOU WILL BE GLAD TO KNOW THAT MY WIFE`S SISTER AND HER FAMILY AND MANY RELATIVES AND FRIENDS RESIDE IN UK AND IN LACS MY LIKE MINDED PEOPLE IN UK . THEY CAN PUT THAT UNBALANCED DOCTOR BEHIND BARS , DEMONSTRATE AT HIS RESIDENCE , OFFICE AND CAN ABUSE IN VAIDIK STYLE ! I REQUEST YOU IN ADVANCE TO PERMIT THEM TO USE YOUR ABUSES WHICH YOU SENT TO ME THROUGH THIS ESTEEMED BLOG http://dalitnation.wordpress.com .

    BUT THIS NOT A POLITICAL , ECONOMIC , RELIGIOUS OR SOCIAL WAR . I TAKE IT AN ETHICAL E-DIALOGUE WAR !!!!!

    THIS MAY BE A BLOOD SHED WAR IF WE BOTH SIDE`S INTELLECTUALS START VAIDIK STYLE ABUSIVE LANGUAGE !!!!!

    THIS IS MY LAST WARNING THAT IF YOU WILL NOT STOP ABUSIVE LANGUAGE , THEN I WILL HAVE TO SHOW MY MADNESS BY REPEATING THE SAME ABUSES TO YOUR GODS AND THIS MAY BE TURNED INTO BLOOD SHED WAR . WE HAD READ ABOUT THE MAHABHARTA WAR . INDIA DID NOT RISE FROM THAT WAR !THE BOTH SIDES DESTROYED .YOU MAY ARGUE WITHOUT ABUSES !

    YOU ARE MANUWADIS , I AM ANTI-MANUWAD AND PRO-INDIAN CONSTITUTION !!!!! OUR CONSTITUTION BANNED RAPES , RACE ( CASTE SYSTEM – IT RESERVE THE SEATS IN GOVT. / SEMI GOVT.INSTITUTIONS BUT NEVER COMPENSATED THE SUFFERERS WHICH THEY LOST TO THE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDUS WHICH MUST BE ADJUST BY LAW ! ) AND FASCIST ACTIVITIES .

    OUR PEOPLE DO TANNING SINCE THOUSAND YEARS AND I WILL LEARN FROM THEM HOW TO OPERATE AND USE A DEAD BODY OF MANUWADI SYSTEM AFTER TANNING INTO USEFUL THINGS – SHOES , SANDLES , JACKETS AND HATS , GLOVES ETC ! .
    I WILL LEARN FROM THE FARMERS HOW TO PLOUGH THE SOCIETY AND SEED THE EQUALITY , LIBERTY , FRATERNITY AND JUSTICE IN THE SOCIAL FIELDS .
    I WILL LEARN FROM THE GHUMIHAR / KUMHAAR ( POTTER )HOW TO MOLD THE UNEQUAL USELESS SOCIETY INTO A USEFUL SOCIETY .
    I WILL LEARN FROM THE SWEEPER HOW TO CLEAN MANUWAD WHICH BLOCKED THE GUTTER .
    I WILL LEARN FROM THE MERITORIOUS JHEEWAR / KASHYAP RAJPUTS HOW TO CROSS OVER THE RIVER AND OCEAN OF HARDSHIPS JOINTLY . ( I HAD ENJOYED THEIR MERITORIOUS ABILITIES WHILE CROSING THE SATLUJ RIVER NEAR SHAHID-E-AZAM SAHIB KANSHI RAM`S MOTHER`S VILLAGE NEAR ANAND PUR SAHIB( PUNJAB ) WHICH IS SITUATED ON ITS BANKS ! SECOND TIME ON THE DAY AFTER INAUGURATION OF THE ADI-MAHAGURU RAVIDAS GATE , VARANASI ( U.P.) BY REVERED LATE MR. K.R. NARAYNAN , THE PRESIDENT OF INDIA AT ALLAHABAD CONJUNCTION OF THE GANGA AND YAMUNA .THIRD TIME I ENJOYED THEIR ABILITY WHILE JOURNEY FROM THE INDIA GATE , MUMBAI TO ELEPHANTA CAVE IN THE ARABIAN OCEAN .)

    I AM VERY ADMIRER OF THE ARTISANS AND LABORERS .AND I AM DEADLY AGAINST THAT SOCIETY WHICH IS A PARASITE ON THEIR ECONOMY AND MAKE THEM HAND TO MOUTH !

    WHAT IS THE INTEGRITY OF THOSE BRAHMANS ?

    WHO EXPLOIT EVEN THE REMAINS OF DEAD BODIES AT HARDWAR , GAYA , MATHURA ,ALLAHABAD , PUSHKAR , PEHOWA .PEOPLE HAD TO PAY MANUWADI TAX EVEN AFTER !THESE CITY ARE HEAD QUARTES OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO DID NOTHING BUT KEEP REMAINS WITH MONEY AND OTHER ARTICLES .SHAME .

    THE TANNERS ARE BETTER THAN THESE PANDAS ! THE TANNERS GIVE US OUT OF DEAD ANIMALS BUT THESE PANDAS NOTHING EXCEPT LOOTING IN THE NAME OF VAIDIK RELIGION !!!! IS IT NOT TRUE ? ? ? ? ?
    Lavanyamura said,
    November 12, 2008 @ 4:41 pm

    Chumber,
    You guys have an office in the UK. Why do not you simply go ahead and file a case?
    Let us see what the court says. Atleast that way, you will be forced (by a court’s order) to see a psychiatrist.
    There is not a single person who is not doubting you now (as mad).
    It is better that you do not talk about other’s integrity or surgical abilites or quote more lies of your own making and pass them off as manusmrithy’s words.

  362. C.L .CHUMBER said

    NOW THIS E-DIALOGUE WILL BE GLOBAL DUE DR RAO AND HIS FRIENDS !!!!!
    BEFORE THIS IT WAS A BRAIN EXERCISE ONLY !!!!!

    I WILL SEND DR.Dr M.R.Satish Rao ,Senior Registrar ,Old Clapham Hospital, Manchester, U.K TO HIM WHETHER HE HAD WRITTEN ACTUALLY !!!!!

    I WILL SEND THIS REPORT TO PRESIDENT,VICE PRESIDENT ,PM,SPEAKERS OF LOK SABHA , RAJ SABHA AND ASSMBELIES .
    I WILL SEND THIS REPORT TO THE HEALTH MINISTRY , UK .
    I WILL ALSO SEND THIS REPORT TO U.N.O.
    I WILL ALSO SEND THIS REPORT TO HEADS OF ALL COUNTRIES .
    I WILL SEND THIS REPORT TO ALL MPs , MLAs , MLCs ,DCs AND SSPs OF INDIA. with entire discussion TO ALL ABOVE to make this issue open !

    I WILL ASK DR.M.R.Satish Rao ,Senior Registrar ,Old Clapham Hospital,
    Manchester,UK TO ISSUE ALSO REPORTS -
    ( 1 ) ON WHOM WHO ABUSED ME .
    ( 2 )ON WHOM WHO WORSHIP THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS EVIL INDO-AYAN VAIDIK GODS !
    ( 3) ON WHOM WHO CONGRATULATE ON THE BIRTDAYS OF THESE EVIL GODS (4 ) ON WHOM WHO ARE THE SLAVES OF THE EVIL FOLLOWERS OF THE EVIL GODS .
    ( 5 ) ON BRAHMA TRIED 5 TIMES TO RAPE HIS REAL DAUGHTER .WHO DISCARDED HIS WIFE AND MARRIED A BACKWARD CLASS GUJJAR GIRL GAYATARI WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF HER AND HER PARENTS .
    ( 6) ON VISHANU WHO RAPED VARINDA@TULASI W/O JALANDHAR ( REF. PADAM PURAN , TULASI-VIVAH MOVIE AND DISTT.JALANDHAR GAZETEER ) .
    ( 7 ) ON KARISHNA WHO DISCARDED HIS WIFE RUKMANI AND LOVED RADHA TO WHOM HINDUS WORSHIP BOTH .
    ( 8 ) ON RAM WHO DISCARDED HIS INNOCENT AND PIOUS WIFE SITA WHO WAS COMPELLED TO SUICIDE !
    ( 9 ) ON PARASHURAM WHO BEHEADED HIS MOTHER RENUKA AS DESIRED BY HIS FATHER JAMDAGANI .HE DID NOT ASKED THE REASON OR REQUESTED HIS FATHER TO PARDON HER .HE KILLED THE KASHTTRIYA VARNA ( ARYAN COMMUNITY ) 21 GENERATIONS AND PRODUCED THE NEXT EVERY GENERATION BY INTERCOURSING KSHATRIYA LADIES BY HIS
    BRAHMAN VARNA / COMMUNITY`S YOUTHS !
    ( 10 ) ON VAMAN WHO DECEIVED BALI TO CAPTURE HIS KINGDOM .
    ( 11 ) ON NARSINGH WHO MISGUIDED PRAHLAD AND KILLED HIS FATHER , UNCLE AND AUNTIE .
    ( 12 ) ON INDIRA WHO RAPED MANY WOMEN EVEN RISHIS` WIVES AND OFTEN USES HIS KEEPS TO FINISH OPPONENTS
    ( 13 ) ON LAKSHMAN WHO ACCOMPANIED RAM AND SITA WITHOUT HIS NEWLY MARRIED WIFE URMILA FOR 14 YEARS .HE LEFT SITA IN FOREST UNGUARDED AND IN PREGNANCY !
    ( 14 ) ON FIVE PANDVAS WHO LOST THEIR CO-OPRATIVE WIFE DAROPADI TO KAURVAS IN GAMBLING !!!!
    AND MANY MORE !!!!! WE WILL PAY HIS FEES BECAUSE DOCTORS RECEIVE THEIR CHARGES .

    NOW THIS E-DIALOGUE WILL BE GLOBAL DUE DR RAO AND HIS FRIENDS !!!!!
    BEFORE THIS IT WAS A BRAIN EXERCISE ONLY !!!!!

  363. C.L .CHUMBER said

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  364. Dr. M.R. Satish Rao said

    Dear Chumber,

    “I WILL SEND THIS REPORT TO PRESIDENT,VICE PRESIDENT ,PM,SPEAKERS OF LOK SABHA , RAJ SABHA AND ASSMBELIES .
    I WILL SEND THIS REPORT TO THE HEALTH MINISTRY , UK .
    I WILL ALSO SEND THIS REPORT TO U.N.O.
    I WILL ALSO SEND THIS REPORT TO HEADS OF ALL COUNTRIES .
    I WILL SEND THIS REPORT TO ALL MPs , MLAs , MLCs ,DCs AND SSPs OF INDIA. with entire discussion TO ALL ABOVE to make this issue open !”

    Chumber your response to my post seems completely out of place. This is an internet blog and being a qualified psychatrist I was just trying to help you out for free. At your degree of mental instability you can see only what you like to see. That’s why I was asking readers here to inform your family members as they are the people who could help you. There is little you can do yourself as one of the signs of mental disorders is unconcious behaviour. You dont know what you are doing. The moment you become aware of your behaviour and actions you get cured. But that is a difficult process as there can be a host of reasons why you have ended up with this mental disorder. Briefly stated it can be either through nature or nurture – by nature I mean it can be nuerological, in that case we need to check your family history. Around 70% of psychaitric disorders are inherited and passed through the genes. By nurture I mean it can be through some traumatic incident or series of incidents or specific social influences.

    I am damned sure Presidents, prime ministers, UN, heads of all countries would not be intrested in your complaint. It will be a waste of your time, effort and money. You show a great deal of Narcissism, high degree of self importance and you believe that the world revolves around you. What do you think. A doctor tells you you are suffering from a mental disorder, and you complain and you think this is some international news. You send a mail to all the presidents of the world and UN and suddenly these guys will think – “oh how dare this doctor abuse the great Chumber”. Come on Chumber get real. You are not an international celebrity.

    The most ordinary thing in the world is that everyone feels they are extraordinary. Get it Chumber. But C L Chumber thinks is deluded that he is a well known and famous revolutionary all set to head some impending revolutionary movement. In my native city of Mysore, I knew a harmless mental patient who used to think that he was the president of the world. He used to wear a badge proclaiming the same and stand in street corners and give lectures on how he is running the world. Chumber you remind me on the same person just that in your case your disease is still in its infancy.

    Regarding my antecedants I am an FRCS and work in the old Clapham hospital in the area of forensic psychaitry. I have as my patients many psychopaths and sociopaths. My advanced skill levels and expertise helps me to recognize psychaitric disorders the moment I see one. Your case is too common and typical in our field.

    I once more ask the readers here, if you know of any family members of C.L.Chumber please inform them and get him treated by a qualified psychaitrist or a mental health institute. I recommed NIMHANS (National Institute of Mental health and Nuero sciences in Bangalore) as it is a premier institute in this field not just in India but widely recognized world over.

    Dr M.R.Satish Rao
    Senior Registrar
    Old Clapham Hospital, Manchester, U.K

    PS: “I WILL SEND THIS REPORT TO PRESIDENT,VICE PRESIDENT ….”.

    BTW just curious. Would you send it to the american president. George Bush is still the president till Jan 20. Just wanted to tell you to send it to Barack Obama as well – just in case this case goes beyond Jan 20. After Obama is sworn in as the president we can still discuss your complaint with him. See you later in the White House.

  365. C.L .CHUMBER said

    WILL THE FOLLOWERS OF RAVAN START TO CELEBRATE SITA-VIVAH ? ? ? ? ?

    WHY ARE THE FOLLOWERS OF RAPIST GOD CELEBRATE TULSI-VIVAH ? ? ? ? ?

    IN HINDU TEXTS , THOSE WHO HAVE RAPED HAVE ONLY BEEN BURNED TO ASHES !!!!! -MR. HAPPY HINDU @ LAVANYAMURA @ LAVANYA ( AND MANY MORE ILLEGAL NAMES ! ) .

    BUT THE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK BRAHMAN HINDU LADIES CELEBRATED THE TULASI-VIVAH CELEBRATIONS EVERYWHERE !!!!! ( THE HINDU GOD VISHANU RAPED WITH TULASI @ VARINDA W/O ADI-MAHAGURU JALANDHAR . REF. THE PADAM PURAN , TULSI-VIVAH MOOVIE OF DARA ACTOR AND DISTT. JALANDHAR ( PUNJAB ) GAZETEER ! ) .

    WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE FOLLOWERS OF RAVNA START TO CELEBRATE SITA-VIVAH ? ? ? ? ? HINDU GOD RAM NEVER CONSIDERED SITA AS PURE EVEN SHE WAS ESTABLISHED PURE BY THE AGANI-PRIKSHA ! HE EVEN THEN BANISHED HER ON THIS CHARGE .HE EVEN ASKED SITA ABOUT HIS PURITY IN THE VALMIKI ASHRAM . THE INNOCENT AND PIOUS SITA HAD TO COMMIT SUICIDE TO GET RID OF RAM`S BASELESS BLAMES

  366. C.L .CHUMBER said

    I WILL ASK DR.M.R.Satish Rao ,Senior Registrar ,Old Clapham Hospital,
    Manchester,UK TO ISSUE ALSO REPORTS -
    ( 1 ) ON WHOM WHO ABUSED ME .
    ( 2 )ON WHOM WHO WORSHIP THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS EVIL INDO-AYAN VAIDIK GODS !
    ( 3) ON WHOM WHO CONGRATULATE ON THE BIRTDAYS OF THESE EVIL GODS (4 ) ON WHOM WHO ARE THE SLAVES OF THE EVIL FOLLOWERS OF THE EVIL GODS .
    ( 5 ) ON BRAHMA TRIED 5 TIMES TO RAPE HIS REAL DAUGHTER .WHO DISCARDED HIS WIFE AND MARRIED A BACKWARD CLASS GUJJAR GIRL GAYATARI WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF HER AND HER PARENTS .
    ( 6) ON VISHANU WHO RAPED VARINDA@TULASI W/O JALANDHAR ( REF. PADAM PURAN , TULASI-VIVAH MOVIE AND DISTT.JALANDHAR GAZETEER ) .
    ( 7 ) ON KARISHNA WHO DISCARDED HIS WIFE RUKMANI AND LOVED RADHA TO WHOM HINDUS WORSHIP BOTH .
    ( 8 ) ON RAM WHO DISCARDED HIS INNOCENT AND PIOUS WIFE SITA WHO WAS COMPELLED TO SUICIDE !
    ( 9 ) ON PARASHURAM WHO BEHEADED HIS MOTHER RENUKA AS DESIRED BY HIS FATHER JAMDAGANI .HE DID NOT ASKED THE REASON OR REQUESTED HIS FATHER TO PARDON HER .HE KILLED THE KASHTTRIYA VARNA ( ARYAN COMMUNITY ) 21 GENERATIONS AND PRODUCED THE NEXT EVERY GENERATION BY INTERCOURSING KSHATRIYA LADIES BY HIS
    BRAHMAN VARNA / COMMUNITY`S YOUTHS !
    ( 10 ) ON VAMAN WHO DECEIVED BALI TO CAPTURE HIS KINGDOM .
    ( 11 ) ON NARSINGH WHO MISGUIDED PRAHLAD AND KILLED HIS FATHER , UNCLE AND AUNTIE .
    ( 12 ) ON INDIRA WHO RAPED MANY WOMEN EVEN RISHIS` WIVES AND OFTEN USES HIS KEEPS TO FINISH OPPONENTS
    ( 13 ) ON LAKSHMAN WHO ACCOMPANIED RAM AND SITA WITHOUT HIS NEWLY MARRIED WIFE URMILA FOR 14 YEARS .HE LEFT SITA IN FOREST UNGUARDED AND IN PREGNANCY !
    ( 14 ) ON FIVE PANDVAS WHO LOST THEIR CO-OPRATIVE WIFE DAROPADI TO KAURVAS IN GAMBLING !!!!
    AND MANY MORE !!!!! WE WILL PAY HIS FEES BECAUSE DOCTORS RECEIVE THEIR CHARGES .

    NOW THIS E-DIALOGUE WILL BE GLOBAL DUE DR RAO AND HIS FRIENDS !!!!!
    BEFORE THIS IT WAS A BRAIN EXERCISE ONLY !!!!!

  367. C.L .CHUMBER said

    C. L . CHUMBER NEEDS DR. SATISH RAO`S CONTACT NUMBER !!!!!

    THIS MEDICAL REPORT IS THE BRAIN CHILD OF M/S HAPPY HINDUS !!!!!

    IF IT IS DR. M.R. SATISH RAO `S REPORT , HE MUST GAVE HIS MOBILE / TELEPHONE NOs. , OFFICE / RESIDENTIAL / E-MAIL ADDRESSES AND WEBSITE NAME OF HIS HOSPITAL SO THAT MY FAMILY MEMBERS AND MY SYMPATHIZERS MAY CONSULT HIM !!!!!

    HOW CAN I CONTACT THIS GENIUS PERSON WITHOUT HIS CONTACTS ? ? ? ? ?

    Dr. M.R.Satish Rao said,
    November 12, 2008 @ 8:21 am

    Dear Friends,
    ( 1 ) I have been following the conversations here for some time.
    As a clinical psychaitrist working as a registrar in Manchester NHS hospital, I can clearly pronounce that Mr C.L.Chumber has gone insane based on the evidence available through his posts.
    MY ANSWER IS : – IS DR . M.R. SATISH RAO FOLLOWED THE CONVERSATION OF C . L. CHUMBER ( MY ) ONLY OR TOTALLY ? IF TOTALLY , THEN WHY DID HE PRONOUNCE HIS JUDGEMENT ONLY ON C . L. CHUMBER ? WHY NOT ON OTHERS ? THESE WERE NOT VIEWS . THIS WAS A MEDICAL JUDGEMENT TO DECLARE ON C.L.CHUMBER IN PERSON AND CONFIDENTIALLY . DOES YOUR MEDICAL NORMS AND ETHICS PERMIT YOU TO DO SO ? OR ARE YOU PAID FOR THIS BY ANYONE EXCEPT ME AND MY FAMILY MEMBERS ?
    ( 2 ) He needs help and compassion. I wish to ask the people here if they know the family members of Mr C.L.Chumber please tell them to admit him to a good psychatric ward.
    MY ANSWER IS : -YOUR GOOD SELF CLAIMED , ” I have been following the conversations here for some time.” THEN YOU MUST READ MY TWO EMAIL ADDRESSES AND MY BIO-DATA ON LINKED POSTED ON THIS BLOG BY THE M/S HAPPY HINDUS . IF YOU SAY THAT YOU DID NOT READ , THEN YOU MAY SEND YOUR GOOD SELF`S SO CALLED MEDICAL REPORT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THIS BLOG TO POST ME OR YOU MAY COLLECT MY E-MAIL ADDRESS FROM THEM BY REQUEST . I ASK YOUR GOOD SELF WHO HAD GIVEN YOU RIGHT TO CONTEMPT ME LIKE SUCH A HEINOUS CRIME ?
    ( 3 ) It is never too late. C.L. Chumber is in the middle stage of madness and his constant obsession with words like rape etc and continous repitition of the same themes in his posts clearly prove his insanity. Compunded to this Mr Chumber is also getting older and senile dementia has set in. If left untreated Mr Chumber can go into a permanent state of mental hallucination and madness.
    MY ANSWER IS ; – YOUR WORDING ” his constant obsession with words like rape etc ” IS THE REPETITION OF M/S HAPPY HINDUS ` COMMENTS . I CAN PRODUCE THE SAME MORE THAN TWENTY TIMES FROM THE WRITINGS OF M/S HAPPY HINDUS !!!!! I HAD REFUTED THESE CHARGES BY SAYING THAT I ALWAYS WRITE ” RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST ” OR RAPEISM , RACISM AND FASCISM ” ! WHAT IS THE AUTHENTICITY OF YOUR GOOD SELF`S JUDGEMENT / MEDICAL REPORT ?
    ( 4 ) Mr Chumber also has lost most of his reasoning and cannot carry on intelligible conversations with people.
    MY ANSWER IS ;- I AM HERE FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS FOR REASONING WITH THE FOLLOWERS OF THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST INDO-ARYAN VEDIK HINDU GODS . YOUR GOOD SELF SAID ,” cannot carry on intelligible conversations with people. ” THE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM ” EVERY ONE IS AGAINST RAPEISM , RACEISM AND FASCISM except CHUMBER BUT WORSHIP,DEFEND AND GLORIFY THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS VAIDIK HINDU GODS AS WELL AS ABUSE ME WHO( CHUMBER ) IS AGAINST THE BOTH EVILS AND EVIL FOLLOWERS , ARE INTELLIGIBLE IN CONVERSATION BUT I AM NOT ! WHAT A PAID MEDICAL REPORT / JUDGEMENT !!!!! PLEASE READ THE REAL JUDGEMENT OF M/S HAPPY HINDUS :-
    Am posting this heartfelt appreciation for you Chumber: Despite my calling you such horrible names repeatedly, still you did not retaliate and call me names. You have more patience, more kindness and more perseverance than what i am capable of, Chumber. Be blessed (in whatever way that makes you happy).
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/dalits-must-agitate-for-reservation-in-
    ( 5 ) Hence I request anyone here if you know the family members of Mr Chumber, please contact them and tell them about his sorry condition. He needs immediate treatment and confinement in a psychaitric ward.
    MY ANSWER IS ; _ ” He needs help and compassion. I wish to ask the people here if they know the family members of Mr C.L.Chumber please tell them to admit him to a good psychatric ward.” IS A MENTALLY SOUND PERSON LIKE A DOCTOR REPEATS LIKE THIS TWICE ? DEAR VIEWERS CAN READ IN PARAGRAPH NO.2
    ( 6 ) He also needs to stay away from computers and internet for some time as he is inclined to start his mental recording of rapism, fascism etc.
    MY ANSWER IS ; – THE SAME WORDING ” mental recording of rapism, fascism etc.” M/S HAPPY HINDUS WROTE ALREADY . THIS THE JUST RECORDING ( ! ) OF HIM NOT THE MEDICAL REPORT !!!!! THIS SHOWS THAT M/S HAPPY HINDUS HAVE LOST THEIR E-DIALOGUE WAR AND THEY NOW WANT TO CEASE WAR FOR WHICH THEY REQUESTED ME AND FELT SORRY FOR THEIR ABUSIVE LANGUAGE WHICH I PRODUCE HERE BELOW ;-
    Am throughly ashamed but i do not want to say anything coz i do not want my words to be misused by you again.

    Am posting this heartfelt appreciation for you Chumber: Despite my calling you such horrible names repeatedly, still you did not retaliate and call me names. You have more patience, more kindness and more perseverance than what i am capable of, Chumber. Be blessed (in whatever way that makes you happy).http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/dalits-must-agitate-for-reservation-in-
    THEY WANT TO KEEP ME AWAY FROM COMPUTER AND INTERNET SO THAT THERE MAY BE NO MORE WAR AGAINST THE RAPEISM , RACISM AND FASCISM AND THEY M/S HAPPY HINDUS MAY WORSHIP , DEFEND AND GLORIFY THE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS .SO THAT THEY MAY DECLARE THAT ” AMBEDKAR WAS A FALSE GOD ” AND DISCARD HIM TO CHOOSE THE EVIL VAIDIK GODS !!!!!
    ( 7 )The treatment
    Chumber should not be allowed to read books which talk of hatred and violence. he should instead be given to read romantic literature and poems of Shakesphere, Wordsworth, Kalidasa etc. No political books to Chumber. As a doctor I would have preferred him not to read at all but that is difficult as Chumber reads a lot of books and very habituated to reading. Reading is a good habit but in some cases like Mr Chumber it can lead to madness. He should stay away from books related to Hinduism, religion in general, Buddhism, Ramayana, Puranas, Ambedkar, Dalits etc. He can read murder mysteries and science fiction and watch movies on these subjects.
    He should also stop reading the many newspapers he reads everyday. He is unable to handle and digest the news and current affairs information.
    Chumber should practise watching cartoon movies like donald duck, tom and jerry etc. This will relax his stressed brain cells and CNS.
    Chumber should follow a strict regimen of exercises like walking, yoga, pranayama.
    Apart from ingesting the prescribed Benzodiapines like valium chumber should exercise caution in his dietary habits.
    Chumber should also try to learn some musical instrument like violin, piano, table. It can give him a lot of relief.
    Gardening for few hours a day is also a good activity for the patient.

    MY ANSWER IS ; – DR . M.R. SATISH RAO INSTEAD OF PRESCRIBING ME THE MEDICINES , QUANTITY AND SCHEDULE OF TAKING IT , WROTE THE BANS OF MY READINGS ON BOOKS AND NEWS PAPERS .WHY ? BECAUSE I AM UNABLE TO DIGEST IT .
    I AM TO SAY THAT I KEEP MYSELF WELL INFORMED BY READING NEWS PAPERS OF DIFFERENT LANGUAGES FROM DIFFERENT PLACES OF PUBLICATIONS , MAGZINES TO KNOW MORE INFORMATION ON MAIN ISSUES OF THAT PERIOD , BOOKS TO READ IN DEPTH STUDY , MEET THE PEOPLE TO DIAGONIZE THE SOCIETY TO WHOM WE TREAT TO MAKE THIS WORLD HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS ON THE BASIS OF EQUALITY , QUALITY , EQUITY , LIBERTY , FRATENITY AND JUSTICE !!!!!
    AND THESE PEOPLE WANT TO BAN ON MY READING , MOVING AND EXPRESSING VIEWS MY FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS !!!!! AND THEY SUGGEST ME TO ” read romantic literature and poems of Shakesphere, Wordsworth, Kalidasa etc.- -He can read murder mysteries and science fiction and watch movies on these subjects.
    Chumber should follow a strict regimen of exercises like walking, yoga, pranayama.
    Apart from ingesting the prescribed Benzodiapines like valium chumber should exercise caution in his dietary habits.
    Chumber should also try to learn some musical instrument like violin, piano, table. It can give him a lot of relief.
    Gardening for few hours a day is also a good activity for the patient.

    ( 8 ) Mr C.L. Chumber has lead a responsible life and raised a good and healthy family. It would be unjust that at his old age he should fall prey to compulsive obsessive insanity. But with good treatment Chumber can spend his old age in a good quality lifestyle and peace.
    Thanks.
    Dr M.R.Satish Rao
    Senior Registrar
    Old Clapham Hospital, Manchester, U.K
    MY ANSWER IS : – M/S HAPPY HINDUS ARE NOW CONVINCED THAT I AM A RESPONSIBLE PERSON AND RAISED A GOOD AND HEALTHY FAMILY BUT – -
    lavanyamural said,
    November 13, 2008 @ 5:11 pm

    Chumber,

    Am throughly ashamed but i do not want to say anything coz i do not want my words to be misused by you again.

    Am posting this heartfelt appreciation for you Chumber: Despite my calling you such horrible names repeatedly, still you did not retaliate and call me names. You have more patience, more kindness and more perseverance than what i am capable of, Chumber. Be blessed (in whatever way that makes you happy).

    Without using your “rapist, racist and fascist” terms for Gods, if you can simply come ahead and describe your concept of “God”, i would be very much willing to discuss various concepts with you on the sane human level. I hope you agree to this. Please make a conscious effort and do not allow your ego to reject this. Thanks.
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/dalits-must-agitate-for-reservation-in

    THIS MEDICAL REPORT IS THE BRAIN CHILD OF M/S HAPPY HINDUS !!!!! IF IT IS DR. M.R. SATISH RAO `S REPORT , HE MUST GAVE HIS MOBILE / TELEPHONE NOs. , OFFICE / RESIDENTIAL / E-MAIL ADDRESSES AND WEBSITE NAME OF HIS HOSPITAL SO THAT MY FAMILY MEMBERS AND MY SYMPATHIZERS MAY CONSULT HIM !!!!! HOW CAN I CONTACT THIS GENIUS PERSON WITHOUT HIS CONTACTS ? ? ? ? ?

  368. C.L .CHUMBER said

    C. L . CHUMBER NEEDS CONTACT NUMBER OF DR. M.R.SATISH RAO , SENIOR REGISTRAR ,OLD CLAPHAM HOSPITAL , MANCHESTER , U.K . !!!!!

    THIS MEDICAL REPORT IS THE BRAIN CHILD OF M/S HAPPY HINDUS !!!!!

    IF IT IS DR. M.R. SATISH RAO `S REPORT , HE MUST GAVE HIS MOBILE / TELEPHONE NOs. , OFFICE / RESIDENTIAL / E-MAIL ADDRESSES AND WEBSITE NAME OF HIS HOSPITAL SO THAT MY FAMILY MEMBERS AND MY SYMPATHIZERS MAY CONSULT HIM !!!!!

    HOW CAN I CONTACT THIS GENIUS PERSON WITHOUT HIS CONTACTS ? ? ? ? ?

  369. C.L .CHUMBER said

    WHY DO I SEE NO DALIT FIGHTING FOR INCREASING THE QUALITY OF PRIMARY EDUCTION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ?

    Dilip Muralidaran said,
    October 6, 2008 @ 7:40 am

    Chumber Ji,
    - – -
    The problem in our nation is PRIMARY EDUCATION. None of the public schools run by this government for the past 60 years have been on standards comparable to even the most filthiest primary school. Why do i see no dalit fighting for increasing the quality of primary education in public schools?

    The drop out rate in rural public schools is as high as 73% as per the 2004 statistics run by Gramalaya. In the cities its about 40 – 45%.

    If we can establish quality primary education then all of our children will be on the same level playing field. Dalits, Brahmins, Christians, Muslims, Sikh, Parsi, you name it.
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/why-babasaheb-married-a-brahmin

  370. C.L .CHUMBER said

    OUR TRUE GOD WILL BLESS THE ALL CREATURES TO BE GENIUS !!!!!

    lavanyamural said,
    November 13, 2008 @ 5:11 pm

    CHUMBER,

    AM THOROUGHLY ASHAMED BUT I DO NOT WANT TO SAY ANYTHING COZ I DO NOT WANT MY WORDS TO BE MISUSED BY YOU AGAIN !!!!!

    AM POSTING THIS HEARTFELT APPRECIATION FOR YOU CHUMBER !!!!!

    DESPITE MY CALLING SUCH HORRIBLE NAMES REPEATEDLY , STILL YOU DID NOT RETALIATE AND CALL ME NAMES !!!!!

    YOU HAVE MORE PATIENCE , MORE KINDNESS AND MORE PERSEVERANCE THAN WHAT I AM CAPABLE OF , CHUMBER !!!!!

    BE BLESSED ( IN WHATEVER WAY THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY ) .

    lavanyamural said,
    November 13, 2008 @ 5:11 pm

    Chumber,

    Am throughly ashamed but i do not want to say anything coz i do not want my words to be misused by you again.

    Am posting this heartfelt appreciation for you Chumber: Despite my calling you such horrible names repeatedly, still you did not retaliate and call me names. You have more patience, more kindness and more perseverance than what i am capable of, Chumber. Be blessed (in whatever way that makes you happy).

  371. C.L .CHUMBER said

    WHERE IS DR. M . R . SATISH RAO ? PLEASE CONTACT ME THROUGH http://dalitnation.wordpress.com

  372. C . L . CHUMBER said

    THE HINDU RELIGION IS A TERRORIT PHILOSOPHY WHICH INVENTED AND IMPLEMENTED THE CASTE / VARNA LIKE FILTHY SYSTEM !!!!!

  373. Dr. M.R. Satish Rao said

    To C.L.Chumber

    I am not in any way related to Happyhindu@lavanya. I only know happyhindu through the posts happyhindu@lavanya has been posting in this forum. I would say Happyhindu has a great deal of patience in dealing with mentally disoriented people. She has tried in vain to make you come to talking terms, which is a very difficult task and I can vouchsafe for her patience from my professional experience. Anyway that apart.

    You asked me to provide my address so that your family can come and agitate in front of my house. Actually this is a professional hazard for me working as a foresnsic psychatrist and I used to get threats from many sociopaths and psychopaths. Hence, as I mentioned earlier in my post we do not give our address and contact so easily. I am not a run of the mill psychaitrist. My area is highly specialised and also I hold my life quite valuable and would desist from giving oppurtunity for sociopaths to run over me, my family and my professional fraternity.

    Regarding my mention of the friends marriage and the friend being a Brahmin and part of VHP. That was false and a claptrap to basically trigger certain predefined emotions and responses from you. We do this all the time in psychaitry and we even enact psychodrama for analysis of mental conditions. Of course I did go to a marriage in ‘Isle of man’ but that was between two of my english friends. I just wrote the two words – Brahmin and VHP and you were flaming. Now the ball is in your court. Understand how words and its respective associations evoke certain crystallized responses in you. I am not saying you lack reasoning but what I mean is your reasoning is clouded with high degree of prejudice and judgement which is bordering on certain mental conditions which can be a clear case study in the field of a branch of psychaitry termed as ‘Abnormal Psychaitry’.

    Please note that I am not your doctor and neither are you my patient. Hence there is no possiblity of you contacting me. I have asked for members of your family or people who know them to get in touch with Psychatristry department of NIMHANS bangalore or even the NHS UK or private hospitals in UK. I can send a list of such institutes through this forum.

    My Diagnosis is based on the readings of your post and I can vouchsafe for an accuracy of about 90% on the diagnosis mentioned in my previous post. I once again call upon readers who know Chumber’s family to get in touch with NIMHANS or any other reputed mental health institute. I am pretty sure that the venerable doctors in these institute will concur with my prognosis. Check it out and then you will thank me.

    Let me tell you this I have nothing but Goodwill towards you and your family. I just felt that you would need to be healed from this malady and hence my post.

    Dr M.R.Satish Rao
    Senior Registrar, Old Clapham Hospital
    Manchester.

  374. SanJam said

    I AND THE DALIT-NATION`S ADMINISTRATOR OR OUR FOREFATHERS DID NOT IMPLEMENTED THE CASTE

    Ummmm Mr Chumber, we shouldn’t use second form (past tense) of verb (implemented) with “did” in the same sentence.

    WE ARE FIGHTING FOR THE RESTORING OF OUR LOST FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS

    You could replace “restoring” with “restoration” of our fundamental rights. What you are trying to restore, obviously, is not being fulfilled, or, is missing.

    A FOLLOWER OF RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST RELIGION CAN NOT BE A TRUE INDIANS !

    Now, even a kindergarten kid would know that a sentence starting from “A” follower, cannot end in plural “Indians”.

    THE HINDU RELIGION IS A TERRORIT PHILOSOPHY WHO INVENTED AND IMPLEMENTED THE CASTE / VARNA LIKE FILTHY SYSTEM !!

    Now, you are equating a religion with a misspelled philosophy. And, FYI: caste or varna system doesn’t get an atom’s importance in the meritocracy that exists today.

    Only jerks like you keep venting out their frustration in such humiliatingly erroneous grammar. Most of the visitors to this blog leave it with a bad taste in mouth and a handful of pity on your filthy retorts and lowly thoughts.

    You truly are a dispensable trash of our society.

  375. PAPPU KUNDANPURI said

    DR. M.R.SATISH RAO SHOULD CHECK THE MENTAL LEVEL OF MR. MESQUITIECE @ MR. MOHAMMAD MEQUITIECE .

    MR. MESQUITIECE @ MR. MOHAMMAD MEQUITIECE CLAIMED ON November 25, 2008 @ 4:57 am THAT ” I am a muslim, should i dicard Allah to be a an ideal Human Being. why are you preaching hatered against Allah.”

    BUT ON THE SAME DATE November 25, 2008 @ 9:28 am AFTER 4 HOURS 31 MINUTES HIS STAND WAS U-TURN ” 1) Why people pray to Allah
    2) why people celebrate Allah’s birthday
    3) Why Muhammed had intercourse with a small child

    MR.C.L.CHUMBER IS A VERY DARING INTELLECTUAL WHO EXPOSED THE HINDU GODS . WE SALUTE HIS PATIENCE AND CONTINUITY .

  376. RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said

    Mr.Sanjam is not a genuine person who abused Mr.Chumber like a lay man .He should feel sorry .Who have authorized him to abuse Mr.Chumber when he is presenting his logic with patience and with references from our Hindu scriptures ?
    I think whenever Mr.Chumber will publish this discussion ,we Brahmans must feel sorry that Mr.Sanjam like are our torch bearer .

    I on behalf of myself ,community and entire humanity beg pardon from the great Chumber who have opened our eyes that our Gods are out of date .May he live long to guide us properly .

  377. lavanyamural said

    Mr.Sanjam is not a genuine person who abused Mr.Chumber like a lay man .He should feel sorry .Who have authorized him to abuse Mr.Chumber when he is presenting his logic with patience and with references from our Hindu scriptures ?
    I think whenever Mr.Chumber will publish this discussion ,we Brahmans must feel sorry that Mr.Sanjam like are our torch bearer .

    I on behalf of myself ,community and entire humanity beg pardon from the great Chumber who have opened our eyes that our Gods are out of date .May he live long to guide us properly .
    ——–

    Pappu Kundanpuri@RamKrishan Sharma@ Chumber,

    You are getting really desperate, aren’t you?

    Sanjam,
    Am having quite a laugh at this “great Chumber who have opened our eyes” self-praise…….am waiting to see your reaction…

  378. C . L CHUMBER said

    PLEASE FIRST OF ALL SOLVE YOUR FAMILY PROBLEMS !!!!!

    PLEASE DO NOT WORSHIP THE EVILS !!!!!

    PLEASE DO NOT ABUSE ANY BODY IF YOU ARE STAUNCH FOLLOWERS OF EVILS !!!!!

    Mesquiteice said,

    December 1, 2008 @ 12:46 pm

    Chumber,

    I prefer mesquiteice-ul-haq.

    Please read chapter 109

    109:6 You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion

    I wish to correct one more this. I did not write anything against Hazrat Mohammed. You are the one calling others Allah as bad. I only wanted to show you that problems are everywhere.

    mesquiteice said,

    November 25, 2008 @ 9:28 am

    Chumber,

    Please let me know your latest stand on:-

    1) Why people pray to Allah
    2) why people celebrate Allah’s birthday
    3) Why Muhammed had intercourse with a small child

  379. C . L CHUMBER said

    I THANK MR. RAM KRISHAN SHARMA AND MR. PAPPU KUNDANPURI FOR THEIR VIEWS .

  380. RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said

    Mr.LAVANYAMURAL !

    You should feel sorry for your misbehave with Mr. Chumber . But you are laughing . Why ? Please be cultured .

  381. lavanyamuralidharan said

    Omg my dear Mesquiteice-Ul-Haq, Sirippu thangamudayalai (over chumber’s self-propaganda)…this conversation is going back to the laughs again…just wanted to convey my apologies to you if i have hurt your religious sentiments, that was not my intension, just trying to show chumber how stubborn others can also be with their own way, discordant way (to him) or opposite way of perceiving things.

    Chumber,

    There is no difference between you and me. We come from the same rung of the society.

    While you are searching for a ‘social’ God from whom you seek ‘social acceptance’, am searching for no such thing since i am certain God loves me the way He created me (together with all my personal follies).

    The only diff between you and me is that you do not wish to give up hatered; while my circumstances were such that i cud never have succumbed to such hatered – actually the choice is in your hands – the cirumstances are all yours to make.

    Already told you that once upon a time me too was brain-washed into this anti-brahminism sentiment..however, before i cud succumb to it, it came to be that i could never-ever-never-ever-no matter-what, adhere to such any such sentiment..

    And esp, when i understood well enough where such anti-brahminism idealogy was meant to lead to, i was sure which side i should go..i see all events in my life as God given so i may never get emotionally attached to any one thing…

    Therefore no matter what…to my hindu brethern, i give my unconditional support.

    The idea was never to hurt you. I only request you not to hurt my religious sentiments.

    Bye and God Bless.

  382. lavanyamuralidharan said

    RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said,

    December 3, 2008 @ 9:16 am

    Mr.LAVANYAMURAL !

    You should feel sorry for your misbehave with Mr. Chumber . But you are laughing . Why ? Please be cultured .
    ————-

    You please do not interfere between me and Chumber. Its between us.

  383. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,
    You said “PLEASE FIRST OF ALL SOLVE YOUR FAMILY PROBLEMS !!!!!”

    please explain what family problems

    you said “PLEASE DO NOT WORSHIP THE EVILS !!!!!”

    Firstly What is evil?. Are you evil?. Am I evil?. are both of us evil?

    ALso give me one reason why i should not worship EVIL

    you said PLEASE DO NOT ABUSE ANY BODY IF YOU ARE STAUNCH FOLLOWERS OF EVILS !!!!!

    Thanks ! I do not want to abuse any body . Whether or not i am not a staunch followers of evils

  384. @lavanyamuralidharan Ram Krishnan Sharma and Chumber have something in between them. Please do not interfere. Homosexuals must be given privacy and equal rights. Lets practice that. Ram Krishna Murali himself said it. “Its between us” lol!

  385. lavanyamurali said

    Chumber,

    After this discussion is over, i have a few things to confess to conclude. Since i see there is no response from you yet, should i conclude that this discussion is over? Will respond after i hear from you.

  386. C . L . CHUMBER said

    PLEASE FOLLOW YOUR BRAHMA WHO TRIED HIS BEST 5 TIMES TO RAPE HIS DAUGHTER !!!!!
    OR
    WORSHIPING , DEFENDENG AND GLORIFYING THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS AS GODS ( ? ) ARE NOT RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS !!!!!

    lavanyamuralidharan said,

    December 3, 2008 @ 10:45 am

    Chumber,

    I only request you not to hurt my religious sentiments.

  387. lavanyamurali said

    PLEASE FOLLOW YOUR BRAHMA WHO TRIED HIS BEST 5 TIMES TO RAPE HIS DAUGHTER !!!!!
    OR
    WORSHIPING , DEFENDENG AND GLORIFYING THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS AS GODS ( ? ) ARE NOT RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS !!!!!
    —————-

    Brahma did not try to rape. My Gods are not rapist, racist, fascist. You do not even want to understand my religious sentiments; but you want to insult it and make politics out of it.

  388. mesquiteice said

    Chumber,

    you said “PLEASE FOLLOW YOUR BRAHMA WHO TRIED HIS BEST 5 TIMES TO RAPE HIS DAUGHTER !!!!!”

    We can say so many things about each other. Anything that you can not prove is false.

    Dont try to preach hatered by weaving your own stories.

    I have already requested you not to talk about things like this? Dont you understand. Arent you a father of a daughter also. Father of one child you should also understand the problems of girl child.

    From the first you are treating “FEMALE” as soft targets. You are abusing them and insulting them to a great extent please stop this immediately.

    Why are you not talking about fathers who have homosex with sons. You are using the girls to get more mileage for you stories. Shameful i say.

    I can understand atleast if you are talking about a union of say the Prophet and Ayisha because that was out of love for each other.

    But please dont talk about fathers and daughters linking them badly. What are you getting by talking bad about others daughters.

    Dont be like historians who will record anything which is SENSATIONAL without any reason. This is the reason why our history books are filled with information about “Alexander”, Hitler and Ivan ther terrible and not people like the Mahavira, Zarustra, baal shem tov etc.

    By speaking more about brahma and his deeds you are adding to this library. We are already suffering due to people like you recording bad things about others. You have forgotten that you can record good things also.

    Dont Live in Story Word and create unessary problems for India and her children. People like you are the reason for Indias problems.

    If you want to be a hatemonger, Thats your choice

    Allow others to love each other. Why are you in the guise of DALIT actually preaching hatered towards Hindus.

    I request you to start telling stories of Love instead of Hate.

  389. RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said

    MR. DILIP MURLIDHARAN IS A HOMUNCULE !

    HE MAY BE HOMOSEXUAL AND HOMINOID .

    I AM HOMOGENEOUS .

    MR. DILIP BELONG TO AN UNCULTURED FAMILY .

    I NEVER SAID ,”Its between us” .

    MR. DILIP MUST HOLD HIS TUNGUE , I AM NOT MR. CHUMBER TO WHOM YOU OFTEN ABUSE AND HUMILIATE .

    Dilip Muralidaran said,

    December 3, 2008 @ 4:36 pm

    @lavanyamuralidharan Ram Krishnan Sharma and Chumber have something in between them. Please do not interfere. Homosexuals must be given privacy and equal rights. Lets practice that. Ram Krishna Murali himself said it. “Its between us” lol!

  390. C . L .CHUMBER said

    V.P. SINGH MODERN BUDDHA, EX INDIAN PM PASSED AWAY!

    MR. Vishav Nath Partap Singh popularly known as VP Singh a former Prime Minister of India and defence minister passed away .He was born in Allahabad ( U.P. ) on June 25, 1931. Mr. Singh studied science with aspirations of becoming a nuclear scientist and came out with flying colors in the B.Sc. examinations in Ferguson College, Pune ( Maharashtra ).But he finally gave pursuing M.Sc. from Allahabad University, Allahabad ( U.P.) and was lured into politics. He made his debut as a Congress legislator in 1969 AD winning the Uttar Pradesh assembly elections and remained a member of the House till 1971AD, before being elected for the first time to Lok Sabha.

    Mr. Singh was inducted into Mrs. Indira Gandhi’s Council of Ministers as a Deputy Minister of Commerce. After that, there was no looking back for him. In 1980 when Mrs. Indira Gandhi returned to power; Mr. Singh was made Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh. His two-year stint at the helm of India’s largest state ended dramatically when he quit in the wake of the anti-dacoit operations launched by his government. He earned the title of ‘Mr. Clean’ despite occupying positions of power, including the Chief Minister ship of Uttar Pradesh and as Defence Minister at the Centre.

    But soon he was made Commerce Minister in Mrs. Gandhi’s cabinet. As Finance Minister in Mr. Rajiv Gandhi’s government, Mr. Singh gained popularity for ordering searches and raids against industrial houses, hiring an American detective agency Fairfax for investigating accounts of Non Resident Indians and for taking up the Bofors pay-offs case.

    .Mr. Singh resigned as Defence Minister after he was shifted from Finance in 1987 at the height of his campaign against leading industrialists on the issue of tax evasion and later took on the then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi by quitting Congress on the issue of Bofors scandal.

    Forming Jan Morcha, an amalgam of disgruntled Congressmen, he later became the pivot around which the opposition came together to dethrone Congress to give the second non-Congress coalition at the Centre, supported by the Left parties and the BJP from outside.

    When Mr. VP Singh contested election in 1989 AD from Allahabad, Shahid-e-azam Sahib Kanshi Ram also contested .Mr. Sunil Shastri s/o Mr. Lal Bahadur Shastri ex prime minister of India was a candidate of Congress. Mr. VP Singh’s government fall due to his interview in the Illustrated Weekly of India, Mumbai in which he described Chaudhary Devi Lal, Deputy PM of India as “spineless person “!

    Mr. Vishwanath Pratap Singh, who cobbled a coalition of the Left and BJP to dethrone late Mr. Rajiv Gandhi`s Congress Party in the 1989 AD elections, played the reservation card a year later by implementing the Mandal Commission Report meant for the 54% OBCs Indian aboriginals – 27% in government jobs that changed the course of Indian politics and social system , bringing to the fore the power of backwards and Dalits in electoral politics.

    TDP chief N Chandrababu Naidu ex Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh condoled the death,”I express my heart felt condolences to Singh’s family members and he was a pioneer in ensuring due share to backward classes in the fields of politics and administration,” He was cremated at his ancestral city Allahabad .

    Late Babu Jagjivan Ram Deputy Prime Minister of India ,Mr. VP Singh and Shahid-e-azam Kanshi Ram played vital roles in forming non-congress coalitions at the centre .They will be remembered for strengthening the Indian democratic system !

  391. C . L .CHUMBER said

    THE DISCUSSION WILL BE OVER ONLY WHEN WE DECIDE THAT THE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU GODS ARE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS OR NOT !

    THE VAIDIK HINDU SCRIPTURES ARE FICTIONS OR NOT !

    THE DEFENDERS , WORSHIPERS AND GLORIFYRES OF RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS ARE ETHICALS OR UNETHICALS !

    ONE DAY THE PEOPLE WILL BURN THE EFFIGIES OF THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIT GODS !

    lavanyamurali said,

    December 3, 2008 @ 5:29 pm

    Chumber,

    After this discussion is over, i have a few things to confess to conclude. Since i see there is no response from you yet, should i conclude that this discussion is over? Will respond after i hear from you.

  392. RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said

    DILIP MURALIDHARAN MAY BE HOMOSEXUAL , I AM HOMOGENEOUS .

    I NEVER SAID ,” Its between us” .

    MR.lavanyamuralidharan SAID TO ME ,” You please do not interfere between me and Chumber. Its between us.”

    MR. DILIP MUST HOLD HIS TOUNGUE , I AM NOT MR. CHUMBER TO WHOM YOU ABUSE AND HUMILIATE WITHOUT ANY PROPER REASON .

    WE CAN NOT TOLERATE UNCULTURED PERSONS .

    Dilip Muralidaran said,

    December 3, 2008 @ 4:36 pm

    @lavanyamuralidharan Ram Krishnan Sharma and Chumber have something in between them. Please do not interfere. Homosexuals must be given privacy and equal rights. Lets practice that. Ram Krishna Murali himself said it. “Its between us” lol!

    lavanyamuralidharan said,

    December 3, 2008 @ 10:53 am

    RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said,

    December 3, 2008 @ 9:16 am

    Mr.LAVANYAMURAL !

    You should feel sorry for your misbehave with Mr. Chumber . But you are laughing . Why ? Please be cultured .
    ————-

    You please do not interfere between me and Chumber. Its between us.

  393. RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said

    HE ( CHUMBER ) WILL BE SURELY A CHAMPION LIKE OBAMA . I PRAY FOR IT .

    mesquiteice said,

    December 2, 2008 @ 7:59 am

    Ram Krishan Sharma,

    Like you I also feel bad. Not only sanjam, a lot of others have also been abusing chumber. Some of them have even apologised and requested chumber to behave himself.

    YOU ARE A GROUP OF ABUSER ADOLESCENTS MENTALLY .YOU APPOLOGESE AND THEN START TO ABUSE . WHAT IS WRONG IN MR. CHUMBER . WE MUST READ OUR SCRIPTURES AND BE THANKFUL TO HIM WHO CAUTIONED US .

    But one thing you should you should understand is that Mr.Chumber, has been abusing everybody. How can Mr. Chumber who does not know how to respect others and their faiths ever be respected by others.

    MR. CHUMBER PASTED YOUR ABUSES . YOU MAY PASTE HIS ABUSES BUT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY AGAINST HIM EXEPT ABUSING HIM . YOU PEOPLE EVEN SAID ,” LAXMAN WILL RAPE CHUMBER`S MOTHER AND SISTERS .” IS THIS YOUR FAITH . YOU PEOPLE WROTE ” AMBEDKAR , KANSHI RAM AND CHUMBER`S FATHER WERE RAPISTS .” FIRST YOU DESERVE , THEN YOU DESIRE .

    Give Respect and Take Respect

    FIRST YOU DESERVE , THEN YOU DESIRE . ABUSERS CAN NEVER GET RESPECT EVEN FROM SLAVES .

    I request your goodself to advice chumber to “Live and Let Live”.

    I CAN NOT ADVISE MR. CHUMBER TO ” LIVE WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU ” . I EVEN ADVISE HIM TO SHOOT THE HABITUAL ABUSER GANG SO THAT PEOPLE MAY LEARN A GOOD LESSON .

    He is continously abusing other faiths, our country, the judiciary etc.

    HE IS NOT ABUSING . HE SHED LIGHT ON OUR FILTHY RELIGIOUS , ADMINISTRATIVE AND JUDICIAL SYSTEMS WITH REFERENCES . HE HAS REPRODUCED THE LIST OF CORRUPT ONE SITTING JUDGE OF SUPREME COURT , 10 HIGH COURT JUDGES AND 25 DISTT. SESSION JUDGES FROM THE OUTLOOK NATIONAL WEEKLY MAGAZINE . DO YOU LIKE CORRUTION OR HONESTY .MR. CHUMBER IS VERY HONEST PERSON .

    While i feel sorry for chumber as much as you do, how can we stop sanjam unless chumber stops abusing others faiths.

    YOU ARE NOT HONEST . DO YOU LIKE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS .ONE THING IS CLEAR FROM THE WRITINGS OF CHUMBER , HE WILL NOT TOLERATE THE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS GODS AND HE WILL DEFINITELY PUT SANJAM LIKE PEOPLE BEHIND BARS . HE WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE HELL LEGALLY .WE ARE WITH TRUTH , OTHERWISE THE COMMUNAL HATERED FEELINGS WILL DEVELOP .

    You said”Who have authorized him to abuse Mr.Chumber ”

    I ask you “Who have authorised Mr. Chumber to abuse others faiths and gods and religions”

    YOU ARE NOT HONEST . DO YOU LIKE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS .

    Just like you i also know that Chumber is a potential champion. Let us hope that he will behave himself and create a atmosphere for everybody will respect him.

    HE IS FIGHTING WITH YOU WITH DO OR DIE SPIRIT TO CREATE A ATMOSPHERE OF RESPECT TO EVERYONE . ABUSERS CAN GIVE NO RESPECT AND WILL GET DISRESPECT .WHEN MR. CHUMBER WILL PUT THIS HINDU GODS IN PRESS CONFERENCES AS HE ANNOUNCED WHAT WILL BE OUR STAND .HE WILL BE SURELY A CHAMPION LIKE OBAMA . I PRAY FOR IT .

    Now as far as you are concerned ” Who have authorised you to represent entire community and humanity”. Please dont preach hatered. If you believe your gods are outdated that is your own belief.

    YOU MUST KNOW THAT THE MODERN MAIN HINDU SAINTS ARE MAINLY SHUDRAS .IT IS TRUE THAT OUR GODS OUT OF DATE . NEITHER YOU NOR I AM REPRESENTATIVE OF ANY COMMUNITY . THE COMMUNITES ARE REBUILDING .I DO NOT PREACH HATERED .

    Why are you using “OUR”. If you believe so you are free to choose which ever god you feel is on date. This why people did not like Chumber. Dont repeat the same things.

    THE BAD PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE GOOD PEOPLE AND VICE VERSA .I LIKE AND RESPECT MR. CHUMBER LIKE REVOLUTIONARY THINKER .

    Just like you feel that your god is outdated others feel that their gods are up to date.

    WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRATIC WORLD . OBAMA BEING A BLACK WON THE WHITE HOUSE DUE TO HIS SLOGAN ” WE CAN DO .” RACISTS AND FASCISTS WILL BE DETHRONED EVERY WHERE WHETHER IN RELIGIOUS FIELD .

    Did anybody ask you wheter their gods are upto date.

    DID ANYONE ASK TO ANSWER TO MY VIEWS ?

    We are all Indians. Learn to respect others and everybody will respect you.

    THEN WHY ARE YOU OPPOSING MR. CHUMBER`S INTER-CASTE MARRIAGES IDEA ? AS FAR AS WE BELIEVE IN BRAHMA , WE CAN NOT RESPECT EACH OTHER DUE TO HIS CASIEST MENTALITY .

    DO YOU RESPECT A RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST DEVILS ? I NEED RESPECT FROM RESPECTFUL PERSONS .

  394. @RAM KRISHAN SHARMA: hmmm….. you’ve spelt my last name wrong so im glad its not me, you incapable of spelling things right, prick. “TUNGUE”, what in the fuck is that? I cannot identify this part of the human body in the dictionary or in anatomy reference material. Now go back to your primary school teacher and ask her to teach you some spelling and grammar and then comment here. 3rd grade kids could beat the shit out of yoo in vocabulary and grammar.

    Unlike you, if at all im homosexual (which im not) i would not be ashamed of it and stand for what i say and be. But if you like to have it that way, its fine with me, so what now? Of course, i do belong to a family which opposes the culture of abusing people on the basis of race, caste, religion and other social and cultural strata. In that way, im glad im from an “uncultured family”.

    What about you? Do you even have a family in the mental asylum that you are in?

  395. lavanyamuralidharan said

    HE MAY BE HOMOSEXUAL AND HOMINOID .

    I AM HOMOGENEOUS .
    ————–

    Ram Krishan Sharma,

    What is HOMINOID ? If you meant to say Hominid, then all of us are hominids (i have taken the liberty to say “all of us” not sure if you want to seek seperate classification).

    In what way are you HOMOGENEOUS ? New definitions?

  396. lavanyamuralidharan said

    Dilip,

    Am the one who told Mr.Ram Krishan Sharma that “its between us” meaing to say he need not interfere between Chumber and me. I do not know why Ram Krishan Sharma needs to interfere at all.

  397. lavanyamuralidharan said

    THE DISCUSSION WILL BE OVER ONLY WHEN WE DECIDE THAT THE INDO-ARYAN VAIDIK HINDU GODS ARE RAPISTS , RACISTS AND FASCISTS OR NOT !
    ————

    Then you need to take many-many births to go on blabbering and alleging endlessly.

    THE VAIDIK HINDU SCRIPTURES ARE FICTIONS OR NOT !
    ——————–

    Vedas are not fiction. Puranas are part-fiction. Dharma-shastras are codes for life – some of which may not be applicable in this 21st century and beyond. Yoga is union of body and breath, and mind with mindless state. Upanishads and the various philosophies are way of life.

    You cannot use a blanket term “fiction” for all liteature. Nobody needs literature to ‘decide’ things. They only guide us. Or they need not guide us at all. Fighting over it is stupidity.

    THE DEFENDERS , WORSHIPERS AND GLORIFYRES OF RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIST GODS ARE ETHICALS OR UNETHICALS !
    ———–

    This is your own allegation. Hindus Gods are not rapist, racist, fascist, or whatever terms you use from the political and anti-hindu point of view. The fact that you want to allege without understanding itself is unethical on your part.
    —————-

    ONE DAY THE PEOPLE WILL BURN THE EFFIGIES OF THE RAPIST , RACIST AND FASCIT GODS !
    ——
    Keep dreaming.

    Ok Chumber…so i must throw my idea of confessing out of the window. Am concerned that you may twist stuff i say – the main prob being that you seek to promote yourself on the political level. Plus considering your state of mind (stories-obsession), am afraid it is hard to communicate with you on a human level.

    All am telling you is if you keep talking about the past, there will be no future.

  398. RAM KRISHAN SHARAM said

    I DO NOT KNOW WHY lavanyamuralidharan NEEDS TO INTERFERE AT ALL .

    lavanyamuralidharan said,

    December 5, 2008 @ 4:09 am

    Dilip,

    Am the one who told Mr.Ram Krishan Sharma that “its between us” meaing to say he need not interfere between Chumber and me. I do not know why Ram Krishan Sharma needs to interfere at all.

    lavanyamuralidharan said,

    December 5, 2008 @ 3:29 am

    HE MAY BE HOMOSEXUAL AND HOMINOID .

    I AM HOMOGENEOUS .
    ————–

    Ram Krishan Sharma,

    What is HOMINOID ? If you meant to say Hominid, then all of us are hominids (i have taken the liberty to say “all of us” not sure if you want to seek seperate classification).

    In what way are you HOMOGENEOUS ? New definitions?

  399. RAM KRISHAN SHARAM said

    DO YOU NOT WORSHIP BRAHMA WHOSE VARNA SYSTEM IS BASED ON RACE , CASTE AND RELIGION ?

    YOU PEOPLE OPPOSE MR. CHUMBER`S INTER-CASTE MARRIAGES IDEA . WHY ?

    NOT OUR FAMILIES ONLY , OUR ENTIRE RELIGIOUS SYSTEM IS UNCULTURED .

    I BELONG TO A CULTURED FAMILY THAT IS WHY I DO NOT WORSHIP UNETHICAL GODS .

    Dilip Muralidaran said,

    December 4, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
    Of course, i do belong to a family which opposes the culture of abusing people on the basis of race, caste, religion and other social and cultural strata. In that way, im glad im from an “uncultured family”.

    What about you? Do you even have a family in the mental asylum that you are in?

  400. RAM KRISHAN SHARAM said

    THEN WHY NOT WE DISCARD THE BAD PAST FOR A GOOD FUTURE .

    WHY DO WE BURN THE EFFIGIES OF RAVAN , KUMBHKARAN , MEGHNAD OF PAST ?

    lavanyamuralidharan said,

    December 5, 2008 @ 10:49 am

    All am telling you is if you keep talking about the past, there will be no future.

  401. @lavanyamuralidharan: I’ve realized that late. This copy pasting shit is confusing business. On an RSS reader it all looks the same. Nevertheless, Chumber and Ram Krishan Sharma are the same ppl indulging in self praise, so what the heck. Their actions look so gay.

  402. lavanmuralid said

    I DO NOT KNOW WHY lavanyamuralidharan NEEDS TO INTERFERE AT ALL .
    —–

    Mr.Ram Krishan Sharma@Chumber,

    You are the one that interfered in my conversation with Chumber to give me advice. And now you say that i am interfering (in what?). I do not need advice from people who call themselves “Homogeneous” (still wondering what on earth is that) :-) . Thanks.

  403. mesquiteice said

    Ram kishan sharm,

    First, dont talk bad about Mr. OBAMA. You are calling him a black so many times. Why are you behind his colour.

    Forget his colour. Start seeing him as a normal person. Dont refer to people as black and white. Everybody is one and the same.

    I can make out that you are tring to play politics by creating enmity between indian people on the basis of gods(and their stories). If you really have any sense stop creating problems for others.

    Mr. Obama never played politics based on colour nor is he against the white people. He never asked black people to hate white people.

    Whereas Chumber and You are trying to create hatered by not allowing people to be happy. You are creating insecurity by speaking like this.

    If you dont want to be a hindu and find problems, dont be a hindu. Nobody cares

    President-elect Obama has released a statement on the Mumbai terror attacks:
    ” We stand with the people of India, whose democracy will prove far more resilient than the hateful ideology that led to these attacks,”

    If you want to be loved like obama preach love, Dont preach hateful ideologies against hindus and hindu faith.

  404. C.L.CHUMBER said

    EVERYONE IS AGAINST RAPISM , RACISM AND FASCISM exept CHUMBER

    EVERYONE IS AGAINST RAPISM , RACISM AND FASCISM including CHUMBER

    lavanyamuralidharan said,

    December 5, 2008 @ 12:22 pm

    I was the one who said: EVERYONE IS AGAINST RAPISM , RACISM AND FASCISM exept CHUMBER – Mesquiteice did not say that. I will rephrase the sentence to EVERYONE IS AGAINST RAPISM , RACISM AND FASCISM INCLUDING CHUMBER BUT CHUMBER IS MISTAKEN THAT HINDU GODS WERE RAPIST, RACIST, FASCIST. Satisfied?

  405. RAM KRISHAN SHARMA said

    mesquiteice said,

    December 6, 2008 @ 5:52 am

    Ram kishan sharm,

    First, dont talk bad about Mr. OBAMA. You are calling him a black so many times. Why are you behind his colour.

    Forget his colour. Start seeing him as a normal person. Dont refer to people as black and white. Everybody is one and the same.

    THEN YOU PEOPLE DO NOT WORSHIP THE CASTIEST BRAHMA AND VISHANU.
    MR. OBAMA`S MOTHER WAS WHITE BUT YOU OPPOSE THE INTER CASTE MARRIAGES . IF EVERYONE IS ONE AND THE SAME , THEN YOU START INTER CASTE MARRIAGES .

    I can make out that you are tring to play politics by creating enmity between indian people on the basis of gods(and their stories). If you really have any sense stop creating problems for others.

    INDIANS ARE DEVIDED IN THOUSANDS CASTES / TRIBES , RELIGIONS ALREADY . WE ARE CREATING GOOD WILL BY DENOUCING THE DEVILS .YOU ARE THE PROBLEM . AT A TIME YOU CLAIM TO BE A HINDU AND MUSLIM . YOU WROTE AGAINST HAZRAT MOHAMMAD .

    Mr. Obama never played politics based on colour nor is he against the white people. He never asked black people to hate white people.

    Whereas Chumber and You are trying to create hatered by not allowing people to be happy. You are creating insecurity by speaking like this.

    WE ARE NOT HATERS .WE ARE AGAINST THE HATERS WHO CREATED CASTE SYSTEM .

    If you dont want to be a hindu and find problems, dont be a hindu. Nobody cares.

    YOU CLAIMED TO BE A MUSLIM .

    President-elect Obama has released a statement on the Mumbai terror attacks:
    ” We stand with the people of India, whose democracy will prove far more resilient than the hateful ideology that led to these attacks,”

    If you want to be loved like obama preach love, Dont preach hateful ideologies against hindus and hindu faith.

    I AM PREACING LOVE . YOU ARE ABUSERS , HATERS AND UNCULTURED PERSONS . I CAN NOT LOVE THE HATEFUL IDEOLOGIES OF HINDU FAITH .

  406. SanJAm said

    Mr Chumber , you just mentioned these lines:
    “The Indian rulers have not strengthened the democracy in true sense. That is why the Muslims, Sikhs and Dalits took arms for the solution of their legitimate rights.”

    ARE YOU TRYING TO JUSTIFY THE TERROR ATTACK ON MUMBAI?
    AND YOU DID NOT MENTION HINDUS IN THE GROUPS OF HAVE TAKEN UP ARMS?
    IS THIS YOUR IDEA OR DID YOU TRY TO COPY THESE LINES FROM A PAKISTANI WEBSITE?
    ARENT YOU ASHAMED OF YOURSELF, YOU ARE LIVING, EATING AND WORKING IN INDIA AND OPENLY CONDEMNING “ALL” THE HINDUS FOR ALL THE CRAP GOING AROUND IN THIS COUNTRY?

    I REALLY FEEL LIKE BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF YOU CHUMBER!

    CHUMBER, YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHIT THATS ITS OOZING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH ALL THE TIME!
    GO AND SEE A DOCTOR, YOU TWISTED BASTARD!

  407. lavanyamurali said

    THEN YOU PEOPLE DO NOT WORSHIP THE CASTIEST BRAHMA AND VISHANU.
    MR. OBAMA`S MOTHER WAS WHITE BUT YOU OPPOSE THE INTER CASTE MARRIAGES . IF EVERYONE IS ONE AND THE SAME , THEN YOU START INTER CASTE MARRIAGES .
    ————
    Who are you to tell people whom they must not worship? Intercaste marriage already exists. Which idiot wants then to “start” them?

    INDIANS ARE DEVIDED IN THOUSANDS CASTES / TRIBES , RELIGIONS ALREADY . WE ARE CREATING GOOD WILL BY DENOUCING THE DEVILS .YOU ARE THE PROBLEM . AT A TIME YOU CLAIM TO BE A HINDU AND MUSLIM . YOU WROTE AGAINST HAZRAT MOHAMMAD .
    ————–
    You are creating badwill among those who have integrated. At the sametime, nobody becomes “divided” because of adhering to their own tribal practices. We represent unity in diversity. Mesquiteice never wrote anything against Mohammad. Nobody is perfect is any “religion”. We do not want trash politicians, fools and madmen wanting to “create” divisions to become prime minister.

    WE ARE NOT HATERS .WE ARE AGAINST THE HATERS WHO CREATED CASTE SYSTEM .
    ———
    Do not use the term “WE”. Speak only for yourself. No dalit i know speaks like you or agrees with your nonsense.

    ————–
    Mesquiteice: If you dont want to be a hindu and find problems, dont be a hindu. Nobody cares.
    Chumber: YOU CLAIMED TO BE A MUSLIM .
    ——–
    Whatz the connection between the 2 lines. Mesquiteice said no one cares if you do not want to be a hindu, Whatz being a muslim got to do with it?

    I AM PREACING LOVE . YOU ARE ABUSERS , HATERS AND UNCULTURED PERSONS . I CAN NOT LOVE THE HATEFUL IDEOLOGIES OF HINDU FAITH .
    —————–
    Funny joke, eh? If you cannot love, then live in your hate (btw, the ability to hate is in your dna) . No one cares.

  408. C.L .CHUMBER said

    MR. SANJAM IS A VERY GOOD ABUSER BUT VERY POOR IN REASONING !!!!!

  409. C.L .CHUMBER said

    I HAVE NOT WRITTEN THIS UNDERWRITING !

    WHO HAD POSTED IT ?

    PLEASE DELETE MY NAME .

    C.L.CHUMBER said,

    December 9, 2008 @ 10:43 am

    I am a self-centric hate-monger who is being paid by muslim and christian missionaries to spew shit on public forums against hindus and hinduism.
    please excuse my foul language against anyone and everyone. its not my mistake, my dalit parents brought me up in slums and used abusive language and animalistic manners. So i’m devoid of anything that is remotely civilized.
    I WILL BECOME PRIME MINISTER OF DALIT INDIA, WHICH WILL INCLUDE ALL THE BULLSHIT OF THIS WORLD!

  410. mesquiteice said

    Dear Chumber,

    Dont worry. I can understand your dilemma.

    Just forget whatever you spoke.

    Let us never hate others religions / faiths or beliefs. Let us give people of India the freedom to choose their faiths.

    Let us not fight between ourselves as to who is good and who is bad. It is a waste of time.

    I always believed that love will one day succeed and i and glad that you have chosen the path of love as well.

    Thanks brother

  411. C.L .CHUMBER said

    MY COMPLETE WRITING OUT OF WHICH MR. SANJAM QUOTED IS AS BELOW –

    TERROR OVER INDIA’S FINANCIAL CAPITAL MUMBAI!
    - C.L.CHUMBER

    On 26th November midnight , the financial capital of world’s most populated democratic country India faced a multiple blasts and gunfire in a dozen areas including the crowded Chhatarpati Shivaji Terminus railway station and two five-star hotels – Oberai and Taj. The situation was so tense and under no control that the government had to call in the Army to assist in defusing the situation. It is reported that more than 101 persons died and 250 injured.

    Mr. A. N. Roy, DGP Maharashtra said tonight’s attack in ” at least seven places” is a” terror strike.” Mr. Roy continued,” The suspected terrorists struck in a number of places. Terrorists have opened in discriminate firing with automatic weapons.” In Delhi , the union Home Ministry said it was keeping a close watch on the situation and would provide all necessary assistance to the state government. The firing is reported near BMC headquarter, Hilton Holtel in Nariman Point and Vile Parle. It is reported that two terrorists gunned down.

    An IPS officer Mr. Ashok Marutirao Kamte was killed while fighting terrorists at Metro Cinema in the city along with Mr. Vijay Salaskar an encounter specialist. Mr. Hemant Karkare, chief of the Anti-Terrorism Squad was also killed when he was leading an poeration at hotel Taj against terrorists. He was probing the Malegaon blast case. Mr. Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister condemned the terror attacks in Mumbai and assured all help.

    The Indian rulers have not strengthened the democracy in true sense. That is why the Muslims, Sikhs and Dalits took arms for the solution of their legitimate rights. Why are the rulers belonging to Congress at centre and the rulers belonging to SAD at Punjab committed to continue their dynastic rules in a democratic world?
    The Indians are living below poverty line. The rich are becoming richer and the poor are becoming poorer. Who is responsible? We condemn these terrorist attacks which is no solution for our problems in a democratic world. We appeal the NRIs to come to help their country fellows as the Gadhrites of USA and Baba Gurditt Singh Sarhali`s group in Canada in the early twenties of the 20th century.

    (Image: http://www.thestandard.com) Posted on Nobember 30, 2008 http://WWW.AMBEDKARTIMES.COM

  412. lavanyamuralidharan said

    The Indian rulers have not strengthened the democracy in true sense. That is why the Muslims, Sikhs and Dalits took arms for the solution of their legitimate rights. Why are the rulers belonging to Congress at centre and the rulers belonging to SAD at Punjab committed to continue their dynastic rules in a democratic world?
    The Indians are living below poverty line. The rich are becoming richer and the poor are becoming poorer. Who is responsible? We condemn these terrorist attacks which is no solution for our problems in a democratic world. We appeal the NRIs to come to help their country fellows as the Gadhrites of USA and Baba Gurditt Singh Sarhali`s group in Canada in the early twenties of the 20th century.
    —————

    Chumber,

    What you have written is certainly wrong.

    When you say “That is why the Muslims, Sikhs and Dalits took arms for the solution of their legitimate rights” – it is clear that you are in agreement with violence taken up for “solution of their legitimate rights”.

    When you say “Why are the rulers belonging to Congress at centre and the rulers belonging to SAD at Punjab committed to continue their dynastic rules in a democratic world?” – then you are connecting a terror situation with a political situation.

    When you say “The Indians are living below poverty line. The rich are becoming richer and the poor are becoming poorer. Who is responsible?” – you are obviously connecting an economic situation with a terror situation.

    Connecting either a political or economic situation with a terror attack is one thing but saying they took up arms as solution for legitimate rights just alludes to one thing:: That you agree with the violent attacks.

    Finally when you say “We condemn these terrorist attacks which is no solution for our problems in a democratic world” – its like lip service, a covered up double-standard statement – its just like Pakistan accepting that terror elements operate from their soil but are stateless actors – a farce that no one beleives. Which is why no one is beleiveing in you either.

    You end with the note “We appeal the NRIs to come to help their country fellows as the Gadhrites of USA and Baba Gurditt Singh Sarhali`s group in Canada in the early twenties of the 20th century” – why are you asking NRIs to help? Are you are referring to past people who funded stuff? If yes, why are you making such references in such a terror-attack situation?

    BTW, Can you clarify why you are against Gandhiji in full detail ?

    Thanks.

  413. me said

    me said,

    December 11, 2008 @ 1:54 pm

    See: http://manukhsi.blogspot.com/2008/11/salute-to-brave-soul-who-fought-for-her.html

    Dalitnation has accepted that “”Some of the muslim and Christian organizations have pledged us support…….We are based in Mumbai and London.””.

  414. C.L.CHUMBER said

    I have not written anything about Mr. M.K.Gandhi .

  415. C.L.CHUMBER said,
    December 12, 2008 @ 3:30 pm
    I have not written anything about Mr. M.K.Gandhi .
    ———————-

    Chumber,

    Since you suffer from selective (political) amnesia due to de-arranged (deranged) neuronic activity, am reproducing some your views on Gandhi:

    NOTE to others:
    To people who want to know more about Mangu Ram Muggowalia (a political ‘guru’ and British supporter), please read on why he wanted a seperate identity for Dalits as a seperate ‘religion’. Also please read about Poona Pact for Gandhi Vs Ambedkar.

    My views: The Brits did not want a single united India, they wanted it divided in the name of religion and caste. Parts of the rubbish put forward by Muggowalia in the pre-independence days would certainly amount to sedition now; apart from big chunks of it being anti-constitutional.

    The stooge-bags also twisted Hindusim around to found Ad-dharam, a politcal-religion based on nothing but ‘shudra’ caste division. The writings of Kabir and Valmiki happen to be such “twisted-around” examples. No one cares about such rubbish now. Just that it happen to serve as great fodder for wannabe Prime-ministers :) And for missionaries too…And yeah, it looks like they can also easily go to the UK.

    ————————————–

    1]

    C . L . CHUMBER said,
    September 29, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
    ” THE MANUWADIS ARE NOW TRYING ALL THEIR BEST TO SNOOP AND DESTROY THE DALIT AWAKENING !!!!!
    6 ) Ambedkar finally had to buckle under the pressure tactics of scoundrel Gandhi and sign the Poona pact. The Dalit rights were once again curtailed by the criminal Manuwadis.

    ———————————–

    2]

    C,L.CHUMBER said,
    August 4, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
    WHY NOT BRAHMINS CHANGE THEIRS COMMUNITY NAME AS HARIJAN ? ? ? ? ?
    When Mr. M.K. Gandhi gave a name Harijan to the ex-untouchables ( SCs ) , Baba Mangu Ram Muggowalia said ,” You Hindus are Harijans ! ” The Brahmins still mind if they are called Harijans – Sons of God !!!! Why ?

    —————————

    3]

    C .L . CHUMBER said,
    September 19, 2008 @ 6:01 am
    MR.M.K.GANDHI APPOSED THE DALIT CAUSE AND EVEN TOOK FAST-UNTO-DEATH IN THE YERVADA PRISON , PUNE AGAINST THE DALIT CAUSE !!!!!

    —————————–

    4]

    C . L . CHUMBER said,
    October 2, 2008 @ 11:54 pm
    THE HINDU RASHTRA`S RASHTARPITA MR. M.K.GANDHI WAS A STAUNCH FLLOWER OF HINDU GOD RAM AND RAM RAJYA .

    —————–

    5]

    C,L.CHUMBER said,
    August 9, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
    UNTOUCHABLES ( SCs) ARE NOT HINDUS .SCs ARE A SEPARATE ELEMENT !!!!!

    ——————-

    6]

    C,L.CHUMBER said,
    August 9, 2008 @ 6:18 pm
    ..the above whole writing is DR.B.R.AMBAWDEKAR in his book ‘ WHAT CONGRESS AND GANDHI HAVE DONE TO THE UNTOUCHABLE .” ( PAGE 183 ,JAN.1991,) I HAVE JUST PRESENTED IT.

    ——————————

    7]

    C.L.CHUMBER said,
    April 14, 2008 @ 10:24 pm
    DR.Ambedkar delivered speeches in the Round Table Conferences in London that untouchables are a separate element in Indian society and he won by the communal award declared on 17th Aug.1932 but he lost by signing Gandhi-Ambedkar pact(Pune Pact).In March 1929,he wrote an editorial of his Bahishkrit Bharat weekly that untouchables must convert to Islam & there is no need to convert to Arya Samaj or Budhaism ! Before 53 days of his pre-nirvan, he embraced Budhaism.! In 1945 AD,he wrote a book`What congress & Gandhi have done to the untochables?` & in 1947 he took oath as minister in Nehru cabinet ! In 1945 he wrote a chapter`Are not untouchables a separate elements ?`in his master piece book `What congress &—-?` Next year he wrote a book to establish that untouchables are ex-Kashatary.!DR .Ambedkar denounced his pact with Mr.Gandhi.
    ——————————–

    8]

    Please note Chumber’s demands in the last 2 lines of this note:

    C. L . CHUMBER said,
    May 5, 2008 @ 4:26 am
    The govt.declared the communal award on 17th 1932 in which untouchables were recognised as separate element as Hindus ,Sikhs, Muslims and Anglo-Indians .But the manuwadi Mr Mohan Dass Karam Chand Gandhi declared his fast-unto-death against untouchables`separate equal status ! There was a Gandhi-Ambedkar pact ( Pune Pact ) on 24th sept.1932.The untouchables ( now SCs ) lost their separate identity to the Hindus & got some more seats on joint electorate basis in assemblies as well as reservation in govt. jobs.
    Later on Dr.Ambedkar wrote a chapter `Poona Pact-A mean deal` in his book `What congress and Gandhi have done to the untouchables ?`Babu Mangu Ram Muggowalia14.1.1886-22.4.1980 ) founder president of the Adi-dharam mandal was also against Poona Pact. .Sahib Kanshi Ram in his book `THE CHAMCHA AGE-AN ERA OF THE STOOGES` wrote that Poona-pact produced dalit- stooges of the Hindus.Please amend the Indian constitution and codify SCs, STs and OBCs as separate elements as Hindus,Muslims and Christians and we will not avail reservation .Secondly give the Sikhs,Buddhists Jains also a separate religions status .
    —————

    9]

    C,L.CHUMBER said,
    August 9, 2008 @ 3:32 pm
    UNTOUCHABLES( SCs )ARE NOT HINDUS.THEY HAVE A SEPARATE IDENTITY !!!!!
    -DR.AMBEDKAR IN ” WHAT CONGRESS AND GANDHI
    HAVE DONE TO THE UNTOUCHABLES .”
    *****ACCORDING TO THIS TERMINOLOGY ,HINDUS ARE CALLED SAVARNAS AND OF THE UNTOUCHABLES AS PANCHAMAS .SUCH A TERMINOLOGY COULD NOT HAVE COME INTO EXISTENCE IF SEPARATION HAD NOT BECOME SO PROMINENT AND ITS OBSERVANCE SI NECESSARY AS TO REQUIRE COINING OF SPECIAL TERMS TO GIVE EXPRESSION TO THE FACT .
    *****

    ===========================================

    And Chumber typically loves the British:

    1]

    C . L . CHUMBER said,
    August 25, 2008 @ 7:30 pm
    NEITHER BRAHMINS NOR SHANKRACHARYA EVER HELPED SHUDRAS !!!!! We got reservation from Britishers not from Brahmins !

    ——————-

    2]

    C . L. CHUMBER said,
    September 1, 2008 @ 10:49 pm
    BRITISHERS GAVE US CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY, GOVT.( LEGISLATURE, EXECUTIVE , JUDICIARY ),RAILWAYS , COMMUNICATION,POSTAL ,ENGLISH , GOVT. SCHOOLS , AIRLINES !!!!!

    (Note: also please note that Christian missionaries always seem to like to mention a ‘few good words’ about the white masters who still control their minds).
    ——————————

    3]

    C . L. CHUMBER said,
    September 1, 2008 @ 10:49 pm
    M/S Bhagat Singh , Chander Shekhar and Subash Chander Bose were communal .They fought for their own liberation .They did not fought for SCs , STs and OBCs .Chander Shekhar Azad used to wear the sacred thread out of his shirt which Shudra can not wear .Mr . S.C.Bose opposed the legal rights of SCs . Bhagat Singh was an Arya Samaji which is against the SCs,STs , OBCs , Sikhs,Muslims,Buddhists and Jains .( Please read the daya Nand `s Satyarth Parksh.
    ——————————–

    Posting Chumber’s writing from another blog:

    C,L.CHUMBER (20:56:32) :
    I BELIEVED TEMPLE ENTRY WOULD MAKE THEM EQUAL MEMBERS IN AND AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE HINDU SOCIETY ? – AMBEDKAR !!!!! ( 3rd March , 1932 )
    Dear Viwers ,
    In Punjab an arain obc muslim Karim Bakhsh converted to Sikhism .His son Bhai Mehtab Singh Bir initiated a movement against the untouchability in the Golden Temple at Amritsar by arranging a two day conference 11 and 12 october ,1920 at the Jallianwala Bagh , Amritsar .
    In Punjab Baba Mangu Ram Muggowalia an untouchable migrated to U.S.A. in Dec.,1909 and became a leader of the evolutionary organization the Gadhar Party founded on 13th April,1913 . S.Sohan Singh Bhakna and Lala Hardyal were its president and general secretary respectively .( Pl visit ambedkartimes.com for more on Baba Muggowalia ).
    He founded the Adi-dharem Mandal on 11-12 June,1926 in a vast rally at his village Muggowal distt.Hoshiarpur.His Adi-dharam Mandal said that they are neither Hindus nor the Hindus belong to us .They declared that our religion and people had a separate identity and our Adi-mahagurus are Valmik,Namdev,Ravidas,Kabir and other shudra saints.They said that they are the aboriginals of India and the Hindus ( Brahmins,Kshattrya and vaish are the foreigner Aryans.The Adi-dharam was registered in census in 1931AD amd more than 5 millions equal to Charistians recorded as Adi-dharami ! Dr. Ambedkar appreciated this move in his book the S” Source material on Baba Sahib Ambedkar” .
    Baba Sahib Ambedkar should follow the Adi-dharam and not sign on the Poona Pact which he denounced later on in his book ” what Congress and Gandhi have done to the untouchables .”
    —————————-

    Regards.

  416. lavanyamuralidharan said

    Chumber,

    You called Gandhi a Scounderel.

    You called freedom-fighters derisively as communal.

    You refer to the British on praising terms; as though they are your saviours.

    You seem proud to state the fact with a exclamatory mark that “The Adi-dharam was registered in census in 1931AD amd more than 5 millions equal to Charistians recorded as Adi-dharami ! “.

    You never want to extend your research to Christianity or Islam.

    You are quick to defend negative things pointed out from Islam.

    You have never said anything negative about Christianity, though things like incest have been recorded there.

    You claim to be an Adi-Dharmi, which is just a political religion based on twisting around things from Hinduism, with help from missionaries. It is you guys that have messed with Rama and Krishna; and propagate negative things about the Vaishnava faith just as Periyar did in the south.

    You put forward the demand of wanting to be recognized as a seperate religion; even though there is nothing original in Adi-Dharm.

    Now i ask you::

    If you are recognized as a seperate religion, what do you want to do about it now? There are no British to give you a seperate nation like Pakistan. There are no whites to help propagate the aryan-dravidian divide anymore; since scientific evidence is contrary to such ‘historical’ claims. You guys blamed your own country-men for your poverty based on caste (while it was the muslim and christian invaders like british that are in fact responsible for your poverty).

    The Indian government has given you everything possible to make you guys educationally sound and materially wealthy. Then why do you still talk as though you are a deprived lot?

    You said that if you are given a seperate religion status, you will not ask for reservations anymore. Is that your own conclusion or do all your Ambedkar-Organizations agree to that? If you are recognized as a seperate religion, will you agree and accept if all government-based incentives are completely removed from you? Please reply.

  417. Paramacharya Pushkaraksha Sharma said

    Dear VTR,

    I know you and you do not know me. And yes you guessed it right I am a Brahmin. I am part of the international secret society of Brahmins which is also tied up with the priory of Zion (and other groups like Masons, Illuminati and many others I can’t tell now).

    I read Dalit Voice regularly and I am your secret admirer because we should now our enemy well. In the last general body meeting the Priory Of Zion and the International Secret Soceity of Brahmins decided that you are the number one threat to our Jewish and Brahmin hegemony. We also had subsequent meeting with the Freemasons, Illuminati and Skull and Bones soceity. A few months back you had rightly pointed out that Obama is number one enemy of our hegemony. But let me tell you this we have already roped in Obama. You will be surprised to know this. Obama is going to be our chief guest along with his Jewish economic advisor Larry Summers and the former advisor the jewish alan greenspan and the Bania babe Sonal Shah. Obama has also pledged support that he is going to spread Manuwadi intrestets in the world. This is a clear victory for us. Now along with the Small Hanuman Statue obama also wears a sacred thread and chants the Gayathri Mantra along with Barokh Athoh Elohim. THis is a rare departure from traditions we Brahmins and Jews have done and we have included a person from another race to our own. Well we sometimes have to do this especially if the person is the president of America. Unlike what you have always said we Brahmins can be quite flexible if it comes to protecting ousr intrests.
    In my last meeting with Obama and Louis Farrah Khan (Yes Farah khan is part of Masonic lodge if you did not know already), Obama has expressed that we should talk to Dalitvoice and VT Rajshekar.

    Obama feels that you will be very angry with him now as he has switched camp. In this regard Mr VTR we would like to talk to you and come to an agreement. We know that you are living in a rich class house in Bangalore. We can provide you with much more funds and money and all you have to do is switch to our side. We will take care of you and your family for generations to come. We are more bothered about your view on Zoinist-Brahmin conspiracy which was once a secret and you have made it know to everyone. You should stop talking about this. You can still write what you have been writing except this Zionist-Brahmin thingy.

    If you agree to this, there are a few things you should do to let us know and our agents will get the message. We need some coded messages from you in Dalit Voice. In the next issue of Dalit Voice just mention that Zionist and Brahmins have split up and there is an internal struggle in the priory of zion. Also write that Obama is still against the Jewish-Brahminintrests. We will get the message. Afterwards our secret members and travel advisors Aaron Rapheal and Srinivasa Shastry will contact you. Srinivasa Shastry will arrange for your travel in a business class ticket to Washington DC where we can meet in the Skull and Bones Soceity of Sunset Boulevard. We will meet with Obama, Greenspan and Larry Summers and Sonal and we will explain the deal and I am sure it will be much beyond your expectations. Much beyond the petro dollars that you are now getting. Afterall it is our dear Alan Greenspan who pegged in the Arab Sheiks as our slaves. Once you are through with this Aaron will contact you and take you to Israel in a chartered flight. You will be served the choicest of wines by nice barmaids of all Races and colours (even from the black untouchables of India). You will be conferred the title of Bhoodevatha and more goodies would follow. We will introduce you to the Masons, Illuminati, Neo Nazis and the Klu Klux clan.

    We will wait for the next issue of Dalit Voice for this message. We will also provide you further details on other coded and hidden messages you should flash in Dalit Voice. I am sure we have lot of things we can do by working along with each other.

    Thanks,

    Paramacharya Pushkaraksha Sharma
    General Advisor – Internation Secret Soceity of Vishwa Brahmins
    Member – Priory of Zion
    Member and Former Pracharak – Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh

  418. happyhindu said

    Look Chumber, this is getting really hilarious with pranksters having their day :) For someone as important as you, i suppose you know what to do — why don;t you write to the prime minsters of new zealand, usa, etc :giggle: Have fun.

  419. C.L .CHUMBER said

    I WROTE THAT I HAD NOT WRITTEN ANYTHING ABOUT MR. M.K. GANDHI IN RESPONSE TO THE QUERY .YOU ARE DIVERTING THE ISSUES . YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB ETHICALLY .

    lavanyamuralidharan said,

    December 11, 2008 @ 7:15 am

  420. happyhindu said

    I WROTE THAT I HAD NOT WRITTEN ANYTHING ABOUT MR. M.K. GANDHI IN RESPONSE TO THE QUERY .YOU ARE DIVERTING THE ISSUES . YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB ETHICALLY .
    ———-

    Chumber, you are the last person that shd be talking about ethics.

    You are the one that called Gandhi a scounderal and claimed that dalits are a seprate element (not hindus).

    You also said that if you guys were given seperate religion status, then you will not seek reservations. If that is your final stand, then i want you to write about it in your next issue of Ambedkar Times. Write with all details.

    It wud be interesting to see how the rest of the so-called self-appointed dalits react.

  421. C.L .CHUMBER said

    WHERE DID I WRITE MR. M.K. GANDHI scounderal ?

  422. namaskar said

    The only thing your blog would do it split up people along cast. I wish people spend the same energy towards their younger generation( irrespective of religion/cast) teaching. Religion is a hoax, it is a way to control people.
    Instead of fighting with ‘upper cast’(read one group of people) why don’t you help downtrodden people(whomever you believe needs it).
    In any human society(if you study carefully), there is no morality. People in power control people without power. If tomorrow you get power, I can bet that you would do the same thing.
    Please stop being victim and take control of yours or help others control their life.
    NB: BTW I am helping students do this.

  423. C.L .CHUMBER said

    WHERE DID I WRITE MR. M.K. GANDHI scounderal ?

    happyhindu said,

    December 17, 2008 @ 2:05 am
    Chumber, ….
    You are the one that called Gandhi a scounderal

  424. happyhind said

    WHERE DID I WRITE MR. M.K. GANDHI scounderal ?
    —————-

    It is a difficult situation when one suffers from verbal diarrhea as well as political amnesia at the same time….everything you have written is also saved up chumber…take a look below:

    C . L . CHUMBER said,
    September 29, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
    ” THE MANUWADIS ARE NOW TRYING ALL THEIR BEST TO SNOOP AND DESTROY THE DALIT AWAKENING !!!!!
    6 ) Ambedkar finally had to buckle under the pressure tactics of scoundrel Gandhi and sign the Poona pact. The Dalit rights were once again curtailed by the criminal Manuwadis.

  425. hh said

    C.L .CHUMBER said,
    December 17, 2008 @ 2:44 pm

    WHERE DID I WRITE MR. M.K. GANDHI scounderal ?
    ———————————–

    Already posted this but your dear dalitnation deleted it. Its the mark of a perfect politician to suffer from politicial amnesia and retract words. But remember that everything you have written has been saved. Please read below:

    C . L . CHUMBER said,
    September 29, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
    ” THE MANUWADIS ARE NOW TRYING ALL THEIR BEST TO SNOOP AND DESTROY THE DALIT AWAKENING !!!!!
    6 ) Ambedkar finally had to buckle under the pressure tactics of scoundrel Gandhi and sign the Poona pact. The Dalit rights were once again curtailed by the criminal Manuwadis.

  426. C.L .CHUMBER said

    WHERE DID I WROTE ABOUT GANDHI
    scoundrel ?

    C . L . CHUMBER said,

    September 29, 2008 @ 2:03 pm

    MR. HAPPY HINDUS ! ONLY THE BEARER KNOWS WHERE THE SHOE PINCHES !
    MANUWADI MINDED MALES MADE THE LIVES OF THE WOMEN THE HELLS ! THE MANUWADI MINDED MEN DO NOT RECOGNIZE WOMEN AS EQUAL TO MEN . IF A MALE IS FEMINIST , HE IS NOT MANUWADI . HE IS A RESPECTABLE MAN . WE WEL COME HIM !
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/14/aishwarya-rai-a-victim-of-brahmin-conspiracy

  427. happyhindu said

    I HAVE NOT WRITTEN EVEN A SINGLE WORD DATED 29/9/2008 UNDER THIS ARTICLE http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/brahmins-destroyed-the-dravidian-indus-valley-civilization/ .WHERE DID I WROTE ABOUT GANDHI
    scoundrel ?
    ——————-

    Chumber,

    Even if you lie or retract your statements, its all been recorded. Your called Gandhi a Scounderal in the first post on this page under point 6:

    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/mandal-commission-rajiv-gandhi-and-the-manuwadi-conspiracy/

    WHY IS HH AND HAPPY HINDU ONE PERSON WASTED THE SPACE THRICE ?
    IS HE NOT ABSENT MIND ?
    ——————–
    Stupid people who paste the same thing in several places to hog space should not be commenting on others about space wastage. Stupid politicians who call others names and then conveniently forget it, should not be wasting time calling others as “absent mind”.

  428. C.L .CHUMBER said

    THIS IS NOT MY COMMENT . I HAVE REPRODUCED FROM THE ARTICLE OF THE
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/mandal-commission-rajiv-gandhi-and-the-manuwadi-conspiracy/

  429. happyhindu said

    THIS IS NOT MY COMMENT . I HAVE REPRODUCED FROM THE ARTICLE OF THE
    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/mandal-commission-rajiv-gandhi-and-the-manuwadi-conspiracy/
    —————–

    Chumber,

    Now you are saying you reproduced from the article. Even for ‘reproducing’ ofcourse you agree with the article, that is why you ‘reproduced’ it.

    But look at your writing yourself – you made the comment abt Gandhi as a Scounderal in your own post (under point 6) without referring to the article at all.

    Now you want to deny it. You are a perfect politician Chumber.

    But anyways forget it. Am more interested in this::

    You said that if you guys were given seperate religion status, then you will not seek reservations. If that is your final stand, then i want you to write about it in your next issue of Ambedkar Times.

  430. C.L. CHUMBER said

    C . L . CHUMBER said,

    September 29, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

    ” THE MANUWADIS ARE NOW TRYING ALL THEIR BEST TO SNOOP AND DESTROY THE DALIT AWAKENING !!!!! ”
    Dear viewers ,
    The administrators of the dalitnation.wordpress.com described how the Brahmans handicaped the reservation policy through globlisation and finished Mr. Rajiv Gandhi ex prime minister of India .The Brahmans also finished Sahid-e-azam Sahib Kanshi Ram through judiciary !!!!! . The main points of this writing for serious study and discussion as below : -
    ( 1 ) The inhuman discrimination of Dalits by the Dwijas have no parallel in world history.
    ( 2 ) The Dalits had no social voice till Mahatma Phule came into picture.
    ( 3 ) Chattrapathi Sahuji Maharaj of Kolhapur initiated the Reservation policy in education in Maharastra in 1902.
    ( 4 ) But this was difficult to institutionalize because Manuvadis controlled all the educational institutes.
    ( 5 ) When our Dalit Messiah Dr Ambedkar took over the leadership of Dalits he asked for separate electorates for Dalits.
    ( 6 ) Ambedkar finally had to buckle under the pressure tactics of scoundrel Gandhi and sign the Poona pact. The Dalit rights were once again curtailed by the criminal Manuwadis.
    ( 7 ) The educated Dalits in the Government jobs were a major threat to Manuwadi interests
    ( 8 ) The Mandal Commission was such a big blow on the Manuwadis that they have still not recovered from it..
    ( 9 ) They created the Ram Janmabhoomi movement out of sheer desperation
    ( 10 ) The wily Brahmin Narasimha Rao of the Congress Party was commissioned by the Manuwadis to crush the uprising of Dalits and Shudras
    ( 11 ) Narasimha Rao contacted his Zionist allies in Israel. The Mossad was commisioned to kill Rajiv Gandh.
    ( 12 ) They sacrificed one of their Brahmin boys to protect the intrests of Manuwadis.
    ( 13 ) The Vaidiks consider Rao as their best Brahmin Prime Minister even better than their pet boy Vajpayee as he destroyed socialism of Babasaheb’s constitution.
    ( 14 ) The awakened Dalits and OBCs have created a new political structure in India
    ( 15 ) The Manuwadis are now trying all their best to snoop and destroy the Dalit awakening.
    ( 16 ) We at Dalit Nation will expose every deception and trick of Manuwadis so that Dalits will be always careful.”
    I am in e-dialogue from 14th April , 2008 . I am always at the disposal of the dalitnation to expose the manuwadis !!!!!

    http://dalitnation.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/mandal-commission-rajiv-gandhi-and-the-manuwadi-conspiracy/

  431. happyhindu said

    Chumber,

    You have written enuf nonsense in various postings abt Gandhi. Forget Gandhi, he is dead and gone. Am repetedly telling you that am interested in this (Why do not you talk about this):

    You said that if you guys were given seperate religion status, then you will not seek reservations. If that is your final stand, then i want you to write about it in your next issue of Ambedkar Times.

  432. C.L.CHUMBER said

    PLEASE WAIT FOR SOME TIME , WE WILL FIX YOUR RELIGION AND YOU WILL BE GIVEN RESERVATION !!!!!

  433. happyhindu said

    Chumber, my buddhi bcame brasht, my understanding took a beating and i need to apologize coz you did refer to the article while calling gandhi scounderal.

    But again you are saying it clearly but not as such. You have made it clear that you are from the Muggowalia and Ambedkar schools, have repeated that Gandhi was against the dalit cause, have highlighted about ambedkar versus gandhi issue and have made it very clear about where you stand.

    I asked you about your claiming a seperate religion status for giving up your reservation stand. You did not answer that.

    Instead you are saying you will fix the hindu religion and give me reservation. I am not asking for reservation. I am only asking why are you having a reservation? And there is nothing in the religion to fix except your falsehood that hindu scriptures endorse rape.

    So you better get straight and answer the question straight. If you are given a seperate religion status, will you give up your stand on reservations as stated by you